Teardown myself, or take it to a shop?

[s0crates82]

I may have a daunting project ahead.

I recently bought a 78 GS550E, here in CA, and it's got some issues.

It's extremely hard to start, the choke lever appears to do nothing, it leaks oil like a sieve from the transmission area, I hear valvetrain noise when it's running, it tops out at 70mph(if it's running well, mind you. Once I couldn't get it past 50mph), and one night after a ride, I got home, parked, and left it running with the lights off for a minute and saw little blue sparks/discharges coming off the plug wire for the cylinder closest to the kickstart, or rider's far right.

Should I just start to take it apart and clean/fix it piece by piece after work for the next several months... or take it to a shop and have them handle it? I've got a running car, but honestly, I'd much rather be riding the bike - especially as the weather's so nice.

 

[Dave8338]

Take your time and tackle one issue at a time.

First and foremost...I don't trust shops whose techs are younger than the bikes they work on. :shock:

Second, good luck finding a shop that will even do the work, let alone correctly.

Third, you've found the best source of info and help that you'll ever find, right here. :shock:

The valve train noise is most likely valves that are way out of adjustment.
(hard start issue #1)
The blue sparks that you're seeing....time for new plug wires.
(hard start issue #2)
The choke not doing anything...plugged choke circuits ie. carb clean.
(hard start issue#3)
The oil leak, a gasket or seal.
(hard start issue...not related) :-D
You'll get that bike running perfect or my name isn't Phil.

 

[Guest]

Where in CA????????

 

[s0crates82]

Where in CA????????

Highland Park.

erm... East LA.

 

[IanFrancisco]

Sounds like you have a number of separate issues here. Taking it to a shop will get expensive and unless you really trust the mechanics the potential for getting ripped off or having the bike ruined by a newb mechanic is high. They're not trained on these older bikes, unless the mechanic is an old guy too. I think you can resolve some of these issues yourself. I would do the following in this order:

The leaky plug wires - The cylinder on the left is #1. From your description it sounds like the #4 cyl. is the one with a leaky plug wire. Replace the plug cap first, then if that doesn't take care of the sparks, then replace the plug wire, the plug, then the coil, in that order. Some coils may not have removable plug wires. Be very careful to not strip the threads in the spark plug hole. That will ruin your day, the head will have to be pulled off and a helicoil or other thread repair system will have to be installed. BIG job, requires breaking the camchain and replacing it or re-riveting the old one. Getting nice strong blue sparks in all 4 cylinders is necessary. If your bike is stock it has points and condenser ignition instead of a cdi box. The points will need regular maintenance/replacement and the condensers will need regular replacement to keep the bike running well.

The valve noise: Within reason, loose valve clearances are better than too tight, which can burn the valves. You should at least measure your clearances and document them, and if you can get a Motion Pro valve shim tool, inventory all your shims. Check this thread for a good writeup:

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=113423

The oil leaking from the transmission: Hard to diagnosis where the oil is leaking from by this description, but a common cause of oil leaks in that area is the clutch pushrod seal. On my GS450 the original seal was the flanged type that has to be inserted from the inside, i.e., requires splitting the cases to replace, but there are two types of seal available. I basically had to destroy the old seal completely to get it out, but it came out without damaging the cases and without splitting them and inserting the other non-flanged type of seal was easy. Running the bike low on oil is not a good idea. There's only 2700cc or so and the bike needs all of it and the oil needs to be kept clean. Oil and filter changes every 1000 to 1500 miles is a very good idea. These GS550's have a reputation for being the toughest of the UJM motors and they can go 100,000 miles or more without a rebuild - but - they need clean oil to do that.

The carbs: They probably need a good clean and tune. The hardest part of this job is getting the bank of four carbs off the bike and back on again. Then once they're back on they will need to be synced, which requires an expensive tool and some experience. I have to admit I've never done a carb clean and sync on a four cyl. bike. The four carbs is the one reason I have never purchased a four cyl. bike. I have done a carb overhaul to my GS450 and also to my VX800. Half the number of carbs makes the job twice as easy. On a 50bhp GS550 we wonder why they didn't go with only one or two carbs instead of four. PITA. There's no point in syncing the carbs until after the valves have been adjusted. Shops get $300 or more for a carb clean and sync.

I would start by getting a bottle of SeaFoam from Napa and running a few tanks of gas through treated with SeaFoam. I would double the concentration on the first tank or two. I think it's something like 2oz. per gallon. Read the bottle. The SeaFoam will dissolve varnish and deposits in the carb bowls and jets and with luck will improve performance to the point where you may be able to postpone the carb clean and tune for a while.

What have I overlooked? The aircleaner, it needs to be cleaned and/or replaced. If it is oiled foam it can be cleaned and re-oiled, if it is paper or gauze or something resembling cotton candy it should replaced with an oiled foam type. Do not use too much oil, it can clog the carbs and foul the plugs.

That's about it for now. Hopefully other listers will chime in with what I forgot. Best wishes getting your 550 back in shape. - ian

 

[spyug]

Ian has covered all the bases so don't go taking it to a shop. They are in the business of making profit. It will add up quickly and for any bike older than 3 years it is not a winning proposition.

Take your time and tackle one issue at a time. All the information you will ever need is on this forum. Just ask.

Given enough time and effort most any problem can be sorted.

Cheers and best of luck on the project.

Spyug.

 

[s0crates82]

Take your time and tackle one issue at a time.

First and foremost...I don't trust shops whose techs are younger than the bikes they work on. :shock:

Second, good luck finding a shop that will even do the work, let alone correctly.

Third, you've found the best source of info and help that you'll ever find, right here. :shock:

The valve train noise is most likely valves that are way out of adjustment.
(hard start issue #1)
The blue sparks that you're seeing....time for new plug wires.
(hard start issue #2)
The choke not doing anything...plugged choke circuits ie. carb clean.
(hard start issue#3)
The oil leak, a gasket or seal.
(hard start issue...not related) :-D
You'll get that bike running perfect or my name isn't Phil.

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to stop off at a bike shop in Eagle Rock and get new plugs and wires on the way home tonight. Might pick up some carb dip too.

As far as the leak is concerned, I figured that was the problem - I just need to go outside and start taking off the panels on the left hand side until I find the source. I've got a service manual, so I should be able to find the part number/type of seal that I need.

The scariest bit of all this, to me, is adjusting the valves. I'm not really looking forward to that. It also seems to me that it's the place where I could screw up the worst. :shock:

 

[Nessism]

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to stop off at a bike shop in Eagle Rock and get new plugs and wires on the way home tonight. Might pick up some carb dip too.

As far as the leak is concerned, I figured that was the problem - I just need to go outside and start taking off the panels on the left hand side until I find the source. I've got a service manual, so I should be able to find the part number/type of seal that I need.

The scariest bit of all this, to me, is adjusting the valves. I'm not really looking forward to that. It also seems to me that it's the place where I could screw up the worst. :shock:

The only hard part about adjusting the valves is finding the right shims. Oh, and remembering to order a gasket. You need a valve depressor tool also.

I'm in Torrance and have two 550's. Been through both styles of carbs and done all the basic maintaince on both bikes. I'd be happy to help in any way possible. Shoot me a PM or email.

Ed
nessism@sbcglobal.net

 

[BassCliff]

Hey howdy hey!

Hey howdy hey!

Mr. s0crates82,

Let it be known that, on this day, you have been formally welcomed to the GSR Forums as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Note that "good standing" usually implies pictures!

Hanging around here for just a few short months has already made me a better motorcycle mechanic and a better motorcycle rider. If you stick around, the same will happen to you too. This is a terrific community that loves to help keep these classic bikes on the road. Thanks for joining us.

Wow! There's been a few new So. Cal. GS'rs join us recently. I hear Angeles Crest Highway calling our names! \\/

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[s0crates82]

Thank you all for replying. I'm very glad I found this forum, and its overwhelming repository of data.

I decided to start small: with the plugs. I started (with much effort) the engine for a few minutes and found that the exhaust pipes were heated in this order:

1. Hot
2. Warm
3. Very Hot
4. Cool

That's the best way I can explain it, really. There's a pretty big temp difference between 1 and 3, then another huge jump between those and 2+4. I inspected the boots, they seemed fine, then changed the plugs. The plugs had no whiting, no carbon; they seemed just darker than brand new.

Also, annoying side note, my ignition coil is integral with it's wires - so changing those isn't really an option without swapping in a new unit. That's something that seems like it's going to be necessary.

I have a sneaking suspicion that it's going to cost as much to repair this damned bike as it was to buy it. A hard lesson to learn on one's first bike.

 

[mark]

Your bike is stock correct?

Your problems could be carb related or ignition related. Probably the easiest way to start is to do a check on the color of your plugs. Pull them after you start it and warm it up the best you can and see what color they are. Plugs can be wet (from oil or gas if they aren't firing well) etc. You'll want to see a light tan or grey color. Let the folks here know what color they are.

Also you have points ignition correct? As stated above, you'll have to make sure that those are properly adjusted, that your timing is correct, and your condensors are in good order. Replacing them isn't that expensive. Make sure your battery is in good condition. As you start, put in new plugs.

Also, its helpful as you start to do other easy things. Unscrew you plug caps from the plug wires and cut about 1/4" off the wire with a good wire cutter. Then screw the caps back on. Make sure that you have a good ground from your battery to the frame.

Get a decent voltmeter from Sears or something. They aren't expensive and you'll be able to test your charging system.

Sometimes its better to start off with a good running bike in good condition. Its easy to put a lot of money into a bike and end up spending more in the end for less. You'll have to go with your gut on that one. Sounds like your aware of what you may be in for intuitively. I'd trust your judgement, take a deep breath and think about it a bit.

But if you enjoy wrenching and fixing up your bike, you're in a good spot. Its a great to own a bike you've brought back to life yourself. Good luck as you get started............hope it goes well and you have fun with it.