The 81 GS1000 Cylinder Mystery

[Call Me Ahab]

Greetings guys!

I've been working on my gs1000, currently combing the engine - and when I took calipers to my engine's cylinders, I discovered something has me veerrryyy puzzled.

My readings say these cylinders are 2.754, 2.749, 274 etcetc. If this is accurate, which I have all reason to believe it is, my engine was bored out to 1100 cc... If this is indeed the case, how do I replace these bloody rings??

Can I buy a set from an 1100 standard? I just don't know what to do now - tomorrow I'll take it in to a mechanic and have him double check my findings, but for now I am quite certain that it is overbored.

Any ideas on how to replace those rings, and what with? Where will I find the right set? I see some on eBay, are they reliable?

 

[rustybronco]

You really should be using the proper equipment to measure the cylinders. With that said are you measuring the bottom of the cylinders and do you know if the calipers are indeed accurate?

 

[rustybronco]

I just checked my GS1000 shop manual and it said the stock bore is 2.755 to 2.756 inches. (70.000 to 70.015mm)

 

[Big T]

Greetings guys!

I've been working on my gs1000, currently combing the engine - and when I took calipers to my engine's cylinders, I discovered something has me veerrryyy puzzled.

My readings say these cylinders are 2.754, 2.749, 274 etcetc. If this is accurate, which I have all reason to believe it is, my engine was bored out to 1100 cc... If this is indeed the case, how do I replace these bloody rings??

Can I buy a set from an 1100 standard? I just don't know what to do now - tomorrow I'll take it in to a mechanic and have him double check my findings, but for now I am quite certain that it is overbored.

Any ideas on how to replace those rings, and what with? Where will I find the right set? I see some on eBay, are they reliable?

You do have a shop manual, right?

 

[Steve]

I agree with the above, wrong tool and wrong information.

The 1000 has a bore size of 70.0mm, which is 2.755".

The 1100 has a bore size of 72.0mm, which is 2.835".

You can download a factory manual from BassCliff's site, click HERE.

.

 

[Call Me Ahab]

Alas, I am a fool.

Alas, I am a fool.

You really should be using the proper equipment to measure the cylinders. With that said are you measuring the bottom of the cylinders and do you know if the calipers are indeed accurate?

No, I am measuring from the top - is that wrong? Yes, the calipers are completely accurate - I remeasured with metric though and after talking to Steve, I see that my panic was premature.

I just checked my GS1000 shop manual and it said the stock bore is 2.755 to 2.756 inches. (70.000 to 70.015mm)

Indeed, my new measurements read within 69.99-70.01

You do have a shop manual, right?

Yes, it is a 2nd edition Haynes Manual, but I'm starting to get nervous about using it.

I agree with the above, wrong tool and wrong information.

The 1000 has a bore size of 70.0mm, which is 2.755".

The 1100 has a bore size of 72.0mm, which is 2.835".

You can download a factory manual from BassCliff's site, click HERE.

.

Will be downloading tonight. I guess my math is just wrong on how engine displacement is calculated - I figured I was using 2.75 x 4 = overall displacement...

Of all the searching I;ve done tonight I did not bother to double check the ORIGINAL dimensions! That would have saved me some grief.

I'm currently consulting (pestering, the poor soul) a member of the forum who is advising me on how to not ruin the engine. He has already stopped me from causing significant damage to my #3 cylinder. Which, granted, looks damaged already.

Thank you, everyone, I appreciate your knowledge and time!
Now I'm off to lap my valves, chip off what paint remains, and powder coat my jugs / cyl top and cyl cover =]



************
This is a photo of the carbon buildup on my cylinder that has me wondering what to do...
http://s1355.beta.photobucket.com/user/CallMeAhab/media/GS Misc/IMAG0261_zps9b19c7f8.jpg.html

 

[Steve]

I guess my math is just wrong on how engine displacement is calculated - I figured I was using 2.75 x 4 = overall displacement...

No, sorry, displacement is calculated by calculating the displacement of each cylinder, then multiplying by the number of cylinders.

In your case, the bore and stroke for the GS1000 are 70.0mm and 64.8mm. The displacement (volume) of a cylinder is pi (3.14159) times the radius squared times the height, so 3.14159 * 35 * 35 * 64.8 = 249.38cc. Multiply that by the four cylinders and you have 997.5cc, or a nominal 1000cc.

.

 

[Call Me Ahab]

No, sorry, displacement is calculated by calculating the displacement of each cylinder, then multiplying by the number of cylinders.

In your case, the bore and stroke for the GS1000 are 70.0mm and 64.8mm. The displacement (volume) of a cylinder is pi (3.14159) times the radius squared times the height, so 3.14159 * 35 * 35 * 64.8 = 249.38cc. Multiply that by the four cylinders and you have 997.5cc, or a nominal 1000cc.

.

Ahhh... my bad =] thank you. Currently reviewing the info you sent over... Trying to figure out where to get the rings from. eBay or vendor =X

 

[chuck hahn]

Get stock OEM Suzuki rings. Thats my opinion.

 

[Call Me Ahab]

Get stock OEM Suzuki rings. Thats my opinion.

Recently lost the job that provided most of my income, at the moment I'm left with a weekends only retail job... Money is a critical deciding factor, I found some "HY" brand rings on eBay that I plan to use... If I could afford $30 a piece for sets, I'd do it - I know that they're higher quality. In this case, I just cannot afford it =[

 

[koolaid_kid]

Be sure and gap the rings before you install them.

 

[Call Me Ahab]

Be sure and gap the rings before you install them.

Yessir, Steve sent me detailed instructions on how to handle that - I just need to get some files for when I'm ready to reassemble. Would a dremel and a grinding wheel work for this?

 

[Big T]

powder coat my jugs / cyl top and cyl cover

Powder coating can't take that much heat

 

[Steve]

I just need to get some files for when I'm ready to reassemble. Would a dremel and a grinding wheel work for this?

If you use a fine wheel and make sure the ring is well-supported (they are surprisingly brittle), then be sure to remove any burrs, that should do fine.

.

 

[MK3Brent]

Powder coating can't take that much heat

How hot do the valve covers get?

300-400?F would probably be your operating limit.

My source:
http://www2.dupont.com/Powder/en_US/assets/downloads/technical_info/Alesta_Technical_Guide.pdf

 

[Call Me Ahab]

Powder coating can't take that much heat

I get the temp ratings from Eastwood: They say it can handle up to 350 after cure.

My engine's highest recorded temp's were during summer, at 310 degrees. I also plan to add an oil cooler to this engine anyways, hopefully that will keep temps down.

 

[Guest]

Do Not Ceramic coat your cylinders and head. It actually raises temperature by isolating.

You can use high heat powder on the block and head.

Just keep in mind that it has to be baked on there for the first time near 350-400.

Also, at that temp your sleeves will pop up a bit.

For the first couple of runs it will soften up again but after a few heat cycles it does harden up.

I noticed that any fasteners that sat on the powder would actually sink into the powder after a few heat cycles and had to be torqued again.

I did my engine base in high heat powder and the top in ceramic before I knew any better.

Powder coating does have its problems.

Grit gets everywhere!! And is a PITA to get it all out.
Unless you get it soda blasted.

Might be just my experience but, valve seals and anything rubber or gasket like cook when left in a head that is heated up to 450.

My source for powder information is http://www.powderbuythepound.com/

 

[Call Me Ahab]

Do Not Ceramic coat your cylinders and head. It actually raises temperature by isolating.

You can use high heat powder on the block and head.

Just keep in mind that it has to be baked on there for the first time near 350-400.

Also, at that temp your sleeves will pop up a bit.

For the first couple of runs it will soften up again but after a few heat cycles it does harden up.

I noticed that any fasteners that sat on the powder would actually sink into the powder after a few heat cycles and had to be torqued again.

I did my engine base in high heat powder and the top in ceramic before I knew any better.

Powder coating does have its problems.

Grit gets everywhere!! And is a PITA to get it all out.
Unless you get it soda blasted.

Might be just my experience but, valve seals and anything rubber or gasket like cook when left in a head that is heated up to 450.

My source for powder information is http://www.powderbuythepound.com/

Indeed, I baked my valve cover tonight... Looks like I applied too thin of a coat, or perhaps moisture got trapped in a bolt hole and oiled out, I'm not sure which. Will re-coat it tomorrow.

I'm not using "high temp" powders, but I was under the belief that they would work anyways, as my engine is not supposed to exceed 400F. If it does... well, I have other problems

I've completely disassembled the engine parts to be baked, just like I did with my carburetors. They came out just lovely =]

After a brutal struggle, I got my valve seals out. Age had hardened them to damn near rock-like hardness! Now I just need to clean up the Valve Head and the Cylinder Jugs so I can powder coat 'em. I've got a great deal of old paint that flaking off, and sandblasting may be my only option now...

I am getting SICK of sandblasting!!! That crap gets everywhere no matter how tight I think I'm buttoned down - I used to use the hood that sealed into a fabric chem-spill suit. EVEN STILL I find sand in my boots... miserable business.

 

[Guest]

Indeed, I baked my valve cover tonight... Looks like I applied too thin of a coat, or perhaps moisture got trapped in a bolt hole and oiled out, I'm not sure which. Will re-coat it tomorrow.

I'm not using "high temp" powders, but I was under the belief that they would work anyways, as my engine is not supposed to exceed 400F. If it does... well, I have other problems

I've completely disassembled the engine parts to be baked, just like I did with my carburetors. They came out just lovely =]

After a brutal struggle, I got my valve seals out. Age had hardened them to damn near rock-like hardness! Now I just need to clean up the Valve Head and the Cylinder Jugs so I can powder coat 'em. I've got a great deal of old paint that flaking off, and sandblasting may be my only option now...

I am getting SICK of sandblasting!!! That crap gets everywhere no matter how tight I think I'm buttoned down - I used to use the hood that sealed into a fabric chem-spill suit. EVEN STILL I find sand in my boots... miserable business.

Daam right its messy. I do the same but still haven't found a way to be clean except with the soda.
I always wanted to try blasting using baking soda as a media just to see if the results would be the same.

An easy way to get old seals out is to heat them up with a heat gun, I found that they would stretch and come off easier.


Take paint off Chemically if you can.

Use paint stripper or you can use spray gasket remover. It just takes longer.
I think Graffiti remover spray has the same effect but i haven't tried it yet.

Stripping is much better than blasting. You still have to use the right PPE though because the chemicals are quite corrosive. I used aircraft stripper for my latest engine project and it took less than 10 minutes in the dip to completely remove 3 layers of paint from engine covers.
You can even remove powder with stripper!

Normal temp powder will work but you'll see that the fasteners will sink into the paint after it heats up a few times.
Although it does act like thread lock

You should pre bake your parts to just above the baking temp to burn off any oil residue and then clean with Isopropyl alcohol before powdering.

I find that there is always some grit hiding and you only find it after baking

Don't know if you've tried yet but I've tried using clear on top of something that is already painted and it ends up mixing with it and coming out dull. Especially with chrome ! It turns to dull silver. But then again the chrome does that after a while on its own anyways

 

[Call Me Ahab]

Normal temp powder will work but you'll see that the fasteners will sink into the paint after it heats up a few times.
Although it does act like thread lock

You should pre bake your parts to just above the baking temp to burn off any oil residue and then clean with Isopropyl alcohol before powdering.

I find that there is always some grit hiding and you only find it after baking

Indeed, that would actually be ideal in my case, I'm going back on with silicone gaskets so I can't torque it down as much as I would otherwise: If they'll stick that would be good =]

I have never tried pre-baking unless I let them cool beforehand... I'll have to try that.

Grit. Freaking. Everywhere. Yes, I didn't even think about using alcohol, I just take an air compressor and blew em off :-k