The factory welded crank saga continues...

[lecroy]

I have heard many people on this site talking about the 1100 cranks being welded at the factory. Someone even posted an article that was published from the 80's that talked about it. Of course, this means it must have been done. I found it strange that none of the virgin cranks I have seen were welded.

I tore down what appears to be a virgin 1100 engine and looked at every joint and once again, saw no signs of any welding. I wonder if any of the 1100's shipped to the USA had this mod. As you guys (and gals) tear into your engines, do me a favor and look. If you have one, post the model and date the bike was built. I have never seen a virgin 1150 crank. I wonder if it really was done, if this is when it took place.

I also wonder if the bike that the article was written about was a one off. Maybe the factory knew that the bike was going to see some major thrashing and made it special?

I would be interested in seeing any pictures you come up with of what the factory welds looked like.

Thanks

 

[anvilman]

crank

crank

i have an 83 1100e and the crank on it has been factory welded i bought it from the original owner and he never tore into the engine. i tore it down to weld the crank on it and it was already done.

 

[headsbikesmopars]

LECROY, midway into the '82 model year Suzuki started welding the cranks. 1980, 1981 and some of the early ,82's were not done. Anytime you take out a GS1100 crank...very good idea to have this cheap mod done...that and the hub mod, just for durability's sake. Terry.

 

[ArttuH]

Yep, I have too an '83 GS110E (manufactured late '82) and it have welded crank. And I'm 99.9% sure that the engine have not opened since it left the factory. But I don't know if all the pins are welded.

 

[lecroy]

I must be the odd man out. I own/ed two 83's, both unwelded. Does anyone have pictures of the factory welds? Did they weld every fit? Did they grind a flat to weld the gear? Did they weld the bearings? Any information would be great! It's a total mistory to me.


"Anytime you take out a GS1100 crank...very good idea to have this cheap mod done...that and the hub mod, just for durability's sake."

I wouldn't make a blanket statement like this. Just having a crank welded now days I think would be a mistake and I am not so sure that cheap is a good word for it anymore. If we were back in the 80's I would side with you. Most of the cranks now have enough miles on them where the bearings are already going bad.

Having the crank torn down and welded will weaken it. If you have one welded and find out after the fact that the bearing were bad, now your cutting welds apart. This can only be done so many times. Any real crank builder is going to check the press fit and tell you if a core can be used for your application or not. You can get away with a lot more on a 10 second small tire bike than a 7 second car tire bike.

Then there is the problem of people not using a crank builder to do the job so there are heating and material selection issues. Buying a pre-welded crank with no history on it would be a big mistake in my book. I would rather buy one that had never been welded with a broken rod.

Also, just an FYI, I ran my first turbo bike with an unwelded crank for years with no problem. The small tire I am sure helped to save it but my point is that it's not like the stock cranks and baskets were so weak that they came apart every weekend.

You are right though, it's a must for a sticky car tire dragbike and if done right is still cheaper than having to buy new parts after one cuts loose.

 

[Dink]

The thing that often confuses people is that the "factory" only welded the crankpins either side of the primary gear NOT the entire crank. Mid 82 is the change point, if you look on an 82 1100 parts fiche it actually gives you the engine number of the change.

Dink

 

[Dink]

The thing that often confuses people is that the "factory" only welded the crankpins either side of the primary gear NOT the entire crank. Mid 82 is the change point, if you look on an 82 1100 parts fiche it actually gives you the engine number of the change.
The change to the "welded crank" co-incided with the change to starter journal size, and stator taper change as well.

Dink

 

[Guest]

Mid 82 is the change point, if you look on an 82 1100 parts fiche it actually gives you the engine number of the change.Dink

Anyone have access to the fiche to share the engine # with us...I would appreciate it.
Tony.

 

[lecroy]

This last crank was an 82 small end so that explains that. I assume then that they did not weld the gear in place. From your description it seems there would have been three welds total. The pin that the gear fits onto and the two pins for the rods closest to the gear. The way people were always talking I was expecting something like the cranks I have done up. Next time I will check this area. Was it just a little tac?

Did you ever take a picture of this area when you had yours apart?

I looked on the fiche on bikebandit and did not see any reference to it. They do show the 82EZ using the 326-001 and the 83ESD using the 327-001 but no mention of any welding or being able to by the parts preassembled.

Thanks again!!

 

[headsbikesmopars]

As Dick Nixon once said..."let me be perfectly clear". I should have been more specific. FYI, NEVER weld a crank without first checking condition of the bearings. I thought that was a given. Anyone doing a rebuild should consider this mod. I saw what a fractured hub did to my brothers '81 GS1100E. It was a stock tire street bike. It was a MESS. Turbo bike with stock unwelded crank..living dangerous. JMHO. No not all pins welded by the factory, only two pins welded.

 

[lecroy]

As Dick Nixon once said..."let me be perfectly clear". I should have been more specific. FYI, NEVER weld a crank without first checking condition of the bearings. I thought that was a given. Anyone doing a rebuild should consider this mod. I saw what a fractured hub did to my brothers '81 GS1100E. It was a stock tire street bike. It was a MESS. Turbo bike with stock unwelded crank..living dangerous. JMHO. No not all pins welded by the factory, only two pins welded.

Ok, sounds like the pin that the gear mounts on and the pin that mounts just behind the gear are the only ones welded. I should be able to see the one weld without a problem next time I have a newer virgin one apart.

When you said cheap, I was thinking cheap. I knew a lot of guys that would send their cranks out for the $100 weld job and call it a day. This is what I call cheap.

Taking a crank apart for inspection is not free. If you have it apart, may as well get rid of the gear and that little end. Of course, this means new clutch gear. May as well get rid of the weak, cast basket while your having the new gear put on......

With most GS cranks having so many miles on them now, the rod bearings get worn and the race starts cutting into the rods and you get a little step. So new rods and new bearings. Final bill, $2000 - $2500 range now days. You are right, it's cheaper than a whole new motor after the crank cuts loose. Certainly cheaper than a stay at the hospital if something goes wrong.

No matter how many new parts you put into them, no matter how much billet and welding, plant enough power ..... Last summers little hickup:

Yes, that crank will live to see another race, but another set of cases go to the recycle bin....

Those small cranks need some TLC. My old GS with nothing mod'ed has made countless trips to the track over the years. It's on it's second transmission but the crank and stock basket are still holding fine. So, I don't agree with "Anyone doing a rebuild should consider this mod".

>>Turbo bike with stock unwelded crank..living dangerous. JMHO.

LOL!! I would say, in my case anyway, that I was not only living dangerous as you suggest but was also very ingnorant!! Funny, not a lot has changed for me!!!

Not sure how old you are but I was not the only one living on the edge back then with my unwelded stock motors. There were no rules for the most part. If you had a DOT approved helmet, leather gloves and a leather jacket, you were good to go. Guys seldom used boots (I never saw a female rider back then) and jeans were the norm. I used leather pants and steal toed boots. A guy I knew fell off in the traps and lost his toes from the cloth shoes.

 

[headsbikesmopars]

LECROY, yes, I am getting pretty ...old myself, LOL,LOL. And you are right, back then we ALL did it that way, (helmet jacket and gloves). Lucky to be still alive that's for sure. Terry.

 

[jrp]

[...]

I would be interested in seeing any pictures you come up with of what the factory welds looked like.

[...]

I was replacing the clutch on a '83 gs1100e last May and spotted a weld on the section of crank viewable from inside the clutch housing. Here's a picture.

Jeff

 

[lecroy]

Jeff, that could very well be what people have been telling me about. It doesn't looks like any of the cranks I have had done. Weld looks likes its not very deep (more on outside the parts than anything it appears) and not even half of the pin. I need to pull my street bike apart soon anyway so I will look closer this time. Thanks.

 

[terbang]

My 82 16 valve 1100 has welded crank pins..

 

[Guest]

Not to get off subject, but I need my crank welded on my '78 1000. Do the welds need to go completely around the pin? The guy who says he can weld mine is planning on just tacking it, I think. He said he wouldn't be adding much if any material to it... more like just bonding it together. Does that sound right? Is that sufficient? After the crank gets welded, do you need to balance it?

 

[Jethro]

I'm pretty sure that whenever you take the crank out you should check the balance on it, but certainly after welding I imagine.

 

[lecroy]

Not to get off subject, but I need my crank welded on my '78 1000. Do the welds need to go completely around the pin? The guy who says he can weld mine is planning on just tacking it, I think. He said he wouldn't be adding much if any material to it... more like just bonding it together. Does that sound right? Is that sufficient? After the crank gets welded, do you need to balance it?

Get what you pay for here. If the first words out out the welders mouth weren't how quick is the bike, your looking in the wrong place. They have a reputation to protect.

 

[Guest]

Get what you pay for here. If the first words out out the welders mouth weren't how quick is the bike, your looking in the wrong place. They have a reputation to protect.

I haven't yet spoke to the welder in person. He is a friend of a friend... has his own motorcycle shop... works mostly on Yamahas. I was just curious if his process is correct, or what I should expect when getting my crank welded. APE, Falicon, and places like that show they will weld the crank for around $100. Does that include balancing, or is balancing needed? I'm not building a drag bike, but it will be modified, and I only want to do this once.

 

[bonanzadave]

Mine twisted in 1984 at less than 5000 miles in a one horse town with a Suzuki only dealer with 5 bikes in the showroom and a shop no bigger than my kitchen. The ol boy got a hold of the Factory rep and got the new crank put in (took a month) and shes been like clock work ever since. a cost to me of $0.00