The smoke is still inside.

[Steve]

Not sure how or why, but it's still there. :-k

OK, let's back up just a bit and go into story-telling mode for a bit.

On my way from Alabama to home, I came to Flori-duh, just north of Miami, to work on my son's 1000G, which was a bit hard to start. We had worked on it back at home, before he came down here in January. Did all the usual stuff: adjusted the valves, cleaned the carbs (it had been running well, so we just sprayed them out and installed new o-rings), checked the R/R, all that 'stuff'. Clean bill of health, we loaded it on his truck and he headed down here.

He called me a couple weeks ago to say that it was not starting very easily, but would run OK once it got going. Hard starting when cold usually means tight valves, but we had just gone through them. I figured 'what the heck, I'm close enough, I'll swing by on the way home'.

Then he mentioned that sometimes it will catch just as he lets off the starter button. OK, catching when you release the starter button usually indicates a weak battery that can't provide enough power, so the coils can't fire well enough when the starter is running. It's a relatively new battery.

Fast-forward to Saturday. Checked the valves, one was LOOSE, at about .007" (yes, I use INCH feelers ), another was tight at less than .0015", a third was was a tight .002, which is actually middle of the range. I have my shims with me, we replaced the three shims with what was necessary, all the valves are happy now.

We turned our attention to the carbs. Took them off, drained each one into a bowl so we could see the debris that came out, there was not enough to worry about. Took the float bowls off, looked at all the jets, they looked just fine. Checked the float heights, did a couple of minor tweaks, put the bowls back on.

Bike STILL would not start.

When we took the spark plugs out to do the valve adjustment (easier to turn the crank and mandatory, since I use the zip-tie method for removing shims), they looked pretty good. Just a little darker than perfect, but still very good. I put two of the plugs into their wires and laid them on the head, cranked the engine. Really not much of a spark, until I released the starter button, then there were one or two sparks as inertia kept the crank going for a bit.

Checked the voltage to the coils, it was less than half a volt different than battery voltage. I decided to check the voltage while cranking the bike. Keep in mind that I had jumper cables connected to my (non-running) van, knowing that we would be at this for a while. While pressing on the starter, the voltage dropped to LESS THAN THREE VOLTS. My meter leads were in the coil connector and touching the engine. I decided to get another reading, but with the black meter lead connected to the battery, and I got about 10.5 volts. The difference was puzzling. It appeard to be a bad ground wire to the engine.

We decided to take the airbox off, so we could get to the ground wire on the back of the engine, just to make sure it was nice and tight. In the process, we disconnected the jumper cables from the van. While the cables were still connected to the bike battery, the positive wire touched the engine case. Yeah, it sparked a bit, as expected, BUT THE STARTER MOTOR TURNED.

The ground cable was tightly connected to the engine, so I followed it up to make sure it was tight at the battery. To my surprise, it was not connected to the battery, IT WAS CONNECTED TO THE STARTER SOLENOID. I followed the wire from the starter, IT WAS CONNECTED TO THE BATTERY NEGATIVE TERMINAL.

I have always been under the impression that the starter will only spin one direction, evidently it also does that, regardless of which way electricity is going though it.

I have absolutely NO idea why this bike hasn't burned up. When the starter button was pushed, the solenoid was energizing the engine block through an 8-gauge wire. The engine is bolted rather solidly to the frame, which is also connected to the battery negative. To me, that is the recipe for a dramatic short-circuit, fireworks and all. Somehow, enough current got diverted to drive the starter motor, and it actually cranked the engine at a respectable, but not quilte full, speed. Since the block was getting 12 volts, there was nothing for the plugs to 'ground' to, so they weren't firing well at all.

We swapped the two wires back to their proper places, the bike roars to life almost quicker than you can get your thumb off the button now, as it should. :dancing:

Still have a couple other minor issues to take care of before it's totally healthy, but they are very minor, compared to that puzzler.

Now for the BIG question: I know the two previous owners of this bike.

In their defense, we have had the bike for almost a year, and it has been doing quite well. What changed?? :-k

.

 

[cowboyup3371]

Interesting read and one I'll think about when putting my harness back on my 550 hopefully by this next weekend.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Don't look at me..as you saw from the jury rigged fuse block that was in it, I touched nothing of the electrical system. Just looking at it was frustrating enough for me.

 

[tom203]

Steve said..."I have always been under the impression that the starter will only spin one direction, evidently it also does that, regardless of which way electricity is going though it.

"

Well, no ! like most simple DC brush style motors, it's direction IS reversed by switching polarity. You could use a solenoid to switch the ground side of the starter off/on- definitely unusual. So your positive post on starter motor was connected to battery positive at all times, waiting for solenoid to trip in and ground it- actually it "grounded" the engine block at the instant the button was pushed. But, like you said, it's strange that the always hot starter couldn't find another path back to battery negative at all times and fry something - seems strange that all other grounds were isolated from engine block.

 

[Steve]

Don't look at me..as you saw from the jury rigged fuse block that was in it, I touched nothing of the electrical system. Just looking at it was frustrating enough for me.

The jury that rigged that fuse box should have been hung. Fixing that was the main project before he left home in January.
The guts of the original box were melted, and an aftermarket fuse box were bolted to the top of it.

Replaced it all with a fuse box from Eastern Beaver, which was a very nice install.
Not the cheapest unit, by far, but I think it was worth the money. :clap:

What still amazes me about this 1000 is that it worked as well as it did, once it was finally able to start.
I suppose it is yet another testimonial to just how bullet-proof these bikes really are.

Before we wrap it up today, I am going to go over every ground connection I can see, and maybe add one or two, just to make sure it is RIGHT.

.

 

[Steve]

So your positive post on starter motor was connected to battery positive at all times, waiting for solenoid to trip in and ground it- ...

No, the starter was not connected to the battery positive, it was connected to the NEGATIVE terminal.
The engine block was connected to the "dead" side of the starter solenoid.

... - seems strange that all other grounds were isolated from engine block.

That is what puzzles me. When the starter button was pushed the engine block was energized. ANY AND ALL of the bolts that mount that sucker to the frame should have returned that current to the battery with a dramatic fireworks display (letting the smoke out). When we get back to working on the bike in just a bit, I will be checking all the other grounds to see if anything else is messed up.

.

 

[DanTheMan]

Y'know, Steve, it can be amazing the things that turn up following a late night "wrench fest" either alone or with company to help. Sometimes the trolls and demons that slipped in to screw up an otherwise great job don't show up until a long time down later, as you scratch your head, and say, (best Erkle imitation here) "Did I do that"?, and of course, after a year or so it's difficult to say who dun it.
I've had more than my share, as I'm diving back into my Jeep wiring, I wonder what I was doing back when I started the job, several years ago.

 

[Steve]

Keep in mind that this is the same bike that went to the Brown County Rally and the Triple Nickle Ride last year.

Can't say there were "no problems", but it did relatively well. I think the few problems that were noted were written off, due to the dodgy fuse box.

.

 

[duaneage]

I'm not surprised the electronics survived, not at all.

The true electronic portion of the bike, this would be the coil igniting box and the RR, are solid state devices. Two things are at play. If reverse voltage is applied to it the semiconductors will not burn up, they will merely operate indifferently. Excessive voltage will cause a problem, reverse voltage will merely be blocked or conducted by a transistor but it's unlikely to be damaged.

The RR is the same. The regulator will just not regulate a negative voltage (SONY regulated the grounds in their TVs for years but that's another story) and it will merely sit there.

The battery is a different matter. Reversing the power to a battery can result in a nasty mess.

 

[Steve]

The battery is a different matter. Reversing the power to a battery can result in a nasty mess.

True enough, but it was the starter that had the polarity reversed.

.

 

[Steve]

OK, we are done working on the bike.

Had a small fuel flood, made sure the petcock was stopping fuel properly and replaced all the float valves. Yeah, I carry some with me in my bag o'parts.

Bike is working MUCH better, but still has a bit of a stumble just off-idle, almost like it's still running on two or three cylinders while idling, but they kick in right away when the throttle is opened. Took it out for a few miles in town here in Pompano Beach, I think it will work OK for him as he travels with it this summer. It will ride either in his truck or one of the work trailers from site to site, and will be local transportation while they are set up for their weekend of work. Yep, he's a Carny. Goes from site to site for a weekend or two, then moves on.

.