Thoughts - 1983 GS550E Stalls When Stopping

[MelodicMetalGod]

I have my doubts about that with this bike and our latest experience. After some of my repair successes last week, a ride this weekend revealed the host of other ongoing issues we have to deal with.

I adjusted the air screws, but only the ones on the right side carb made any difference. I could not find any reference to the default settings on these MSW30ss carbs, only "PRE-SET", but my experience showed that 2.5 turns out worked best (1000 m up high here in Calgary). I set the left side carb to match. The bike did idle nicely in the garage when it was hot.
After a ride, it was a different experience. The idle fluctuated all over the place during the ride and is likely an intake leak somewhere. The o-rings are in good shape, so it is either the boots or the clamps. The clamps are maxed out right now and do not appear to be putting enough tension on to seal properly, perhaps I can replace them with some generic hose clamps.
The other issue that is showing itself more and more is blue smoke from the left exhaust and from our compression tests that is likely #2 cylinder.

The aim of getting this bike was to provide the girlfriend with a comfortable learning bike while she gets her confidence up enough to ride the V-Strom. Right now to make the bike behave on city streets (it is fine opened up on the highway) we are looking at a carb rebuild, valve adjustment, new intakes, and new rings. Oh well, lesson learned - Don't buy a bike that doesn't idle nicely.

I'll do the valves, likely the carb rebuild, and play around with the intakes a bit more, but I doubt I'll put money and time into new intakes and rings.

Thanks again for the input!

Sounds like you're committed to this restoration. To that end, be advised, those o-rings (between the carb boots and the engine) may look fine and still be in need of replacement. I won't tell you what the final solution was to get my bike back on the road, in spite of the fact that I was virtually CERTAIN that the existing parts were fine, but I'll bet you can guess.

Best of luck!

 

[MacGyver]

Sounds like you're committed to this restoration. To that end, be advised, those o-rings (between the carb boots and the engine) may look fine and still be in need of replacement. I won't tell you what the final solution was to get my bike back on the road, in spite of the fact that I was virtually CERTAIN that the existing parts were fine, but I'll bet you can guess.

Best of luck!

I guess I should have qualified the 'rings' more. I meant cylinder rings. I already have a set of 'CycleOrings.com' on the way for the carbs and the intakes, that is easy and affordable enough to replace. I don't think I'll replace the intake boots unless I find something obviously wrong and I don't think I'll invest the money and time on a set of cylinder rings. Of course that may change if I find a good price on those parts and the bike is still in our garage over the Winter.

 

[MacGyver]

On a whim the other night I decided to replace the stressed and maxed out metal clamps on the intakes with zip ties. If nothing else, I thought, it should help me troubleshoot. I was easily able to put more tension on the zip tie compared to the old stretched out clamp. The bike still stalls when stopped hard, but the idle did seem more stable. In the past it would require continual adjustment of the idle knob while riding and the idle would vary from stall to 3000 rpm. More testing is required but we are getting there step by step. Still more to do though.

 

[Calvin Blackmore]

This beahavour happened to my bike all the time.
its a combination of the charging system and an intake leak.

fix the intake leak with intake o rings
i would shell out for oem clamps for the boots as I never had luck with anything else.

also adjust the valves to spec.
oddly the imbalane in the compression numbers does change with mileage
walk soem techron into the tank and run it hard and nasty.

not sure what impact the depleting battery has on the coils but it always seemed to me when my reg rect was dying that you could hold the throttle open but the engine would die at low rpm.

I read the stator papers but they do not fully corespond to the charging system on this model of bike.

oh and golly get the manual there is a free one floating about
and golly post a picture of this bike

 

[MacGyver]

Things that make you go hmmmm...

Things that make you go hmmmm...

I started preparing the 1983 GS550E for a valve check last night. I pulled out the plugs and this time looked closer at them. The first shock was that they were the wrong part number - DPR8EA-9 instead of the D9EA. Obviously they worked OK and hopefully they did not cause any permanent issues. The major physical difference is that the wrong plugs are about 1-2 mm longer and the gap is by default the maximum allowed.

I do have a new set ready to go, but the local shop only had the D8EA (hot) plugs in stock which I hope will work fine. I'll keep an eye on them especially since plugs 1 & 2 had more carbon on them than 3 & 4. That is likely related to my pilot screw adjustments on carb #1 which may just be causing the majority of the issues I am having with this bike. I likely set the pilot screw too rich this time. A few weeks ago when a friend helped me attempt to balance the carbs and check the compression, all four plugs looked normal and the pilot screws were set to 1.5 turns. The right carb is happiest at 2.5 turns right now.

It is becoming clear that this bike suffered a potentially severe lack of attention to details. On the plus side, I now have a handful of extra plugs for my KLR650.

Valve check tonight perhaps and a carb rebuild when the cycleorings package arrives.

 

[twiggy2cents]

ive been having a problem with cyl 1 and 2 rich like that. I think it is due to the sync being out, i have reset mine multiple times and yet to get it right

 

[MacGyver]

Carb Rebuild - The Last Frontier

Carb Rebuild - The Last Frontier

Last night I had the pleasure of adjusting the valves on the GS550E. Most people would not think that adjusting valves is a pleasure, but compared to what it took to check the valves on my KLR let alone adjust them, it was a pleasure for me. Removing the valve cover was straight forward and adjusting the valves was as simple as unlock, adjust, and lock. I am sure that cost plays a big factor in shim type valves, but this lock nut design seems to work very well in my brief experience and I wish my other bikes had it. I also followed the Clymer manual which recommended re-torqueing the cylinder head nuts before checking/setting the valves. I tried to re-torque the cylinder head bolt inbetween the exhaust pipes, but it sheared right off. I'll have to address that eventually but for the short term I hope that will not cause any major problems.

Cylinder #2 which had lazy compression problems did need all the valves adjusted as I could not get the 0.08 mm feeler gauge into it. I didn't try anything smaller than that. The clearance specification is 0.08 to 0.13 mm so I decided to adjust to a relaxed 0.10 mm setting. My current feeler set is limited to .06, .08, .10, and .15 at the small end - I'll have to get a better set eventually. I would prefer to have too much clearance rather than not enough. Excessive valve chatter seems to be the main negative of too much clearance. The list of negatives for too little clearance is much longer and much more damaging. I adjusted all the valves of #1 & #2. Cylinder #4 was fine and if memory serves the intakes of #3 were also fine.

Everything went back together fine, new plugs with the proper part number were installed as well. Best of all it started right up! I played with the carbs a bit, twin #1 is still not behaving as it should. An interesting note from the Suzuki Service Manual - poor idling can be atributed to too large of a spark gap and the incorrect plugs the previous owner had installed were at the maximum gap by default. Despite all that I have done, the issue in the subject of the thread still remains, anything more than easy braking to a stop and the engine dies.

On the plus side, the engine is smoother now, starting is easier, and the idle stays constant. On to the carb rebuild!

Thanks for listening.

 

[Colorado85gs550]

I can't believe that I missed this thread!

My bike was falling flat on its face when coming to a stop as well.......it was improper A/F mixture and idle setting and I noticed that the throttle return was having a problem depending on how I adjusted the tension at the cable hold down that bolts to the top of the carb!

I have also found out now that my intake O-rings need to be replaced and is the reason I'm having some of the similar issues.

On a note for carb tuning.....I paid $60 to have my carbs cleaned, inspected, and tuned at a local shop. These guys had my carbs apart on the bench within 15 minutes, torn down to pieces in another 10 minutes, put back together and installed in 10-15 minutes more, then started tuning and adjusting them by ear before throwing my colortune on it and fine tuning..........1 hour and its never run better!

I too think you paid WAY too much for your 550E......I paid $400 for mine running good and I've put another $1000 into it with the custom work.....its got a few more things to go and its ready for paint!

Good luck with your 550E.....let me know if you have any questions. I've pretty much had mine apart into pieces in a weekend then back together by Sunday night 5 or 6 times now!

 

[MacGyver]

I can't believe that I missed this thread!

My bike was falling flat on its face when coming to a stop as well.......it was improper A/F mixture and idle setting and I noticed that the throttle return was having a problem depending on how I adjusted the tension at the cable hold down that bolts to the top of the carb!

I have also found out now that my intake O-rings need to be replaced and is the reason I'm having some of the similar issues.

On a note for carb tuning.....I paid $60 to have my carbs cleaned, inspected, and tuned at a local shop. These guys had my carbs apart on the bench within 15 minutes, torn down to pieces in another 10 minutes, put back together and installed in 10-15 minutes more, then started tuning and adjusting them by ear before throwing my colortune on it and fine tuning..........1 hour and its never run better!

I too think you paid WAY too much for your 550E......I paid $400 for mine running good and I've put another $1000 into it with the custom work.....its got a few more things to go and its ready for paint!

Good luck with your 550E.....let me know if you have any questions. I've pretty much had mine apart into pieces in a weekend then back together by Sunday night 5 or 6 times now!

It's not like there is an abundance of other topics to browse on a daily basis, so yeah, why did you miss it.

I have a set of intake and carb rings on their way to me. I'll see what I can do first, but yes, I would be happy to pay a shop for an hour or two if they are confident they can cure the issue. First things first though, there are a lot of little issues I can deal with before I get to that stage. Part of the facination for me in all of this is the experience it is giving me. The engines in the KLR and the V-Strom are running great, I don't want to touch them unless necessary. This is my first experience rebuilding carburetors and it has been a great way to learn. I am becoming more and more certain that there is a significant issue with carb #1 and the pilot jets, there was a bit of dust/sand in the float tanks so it would not be surprising to find some small passages blocked.

Yes, we likely did pay a bit too much (it would have translated to about $1000 US) but we were a bit anxious to get a bike and the Spring/small starter bike market in Calgary dictated what was available. This bike was the best of the handful we looked at by far. So far I have only put about $150 worth of parts into the bike and I don't plan on much more than that. The learning experience has been valuable to me as well as fun. If I can cure this idle issue, which I am confident I can, we should be able to sell it next Spring for $1500 or more, if we want to that is.

As requested elsewhere and a bit overdue, here is a photo of "The Monarch"

I think it would look pretty cool if we painted a very large blown up image of a Monarch butterfly wing on the gas tank, like an orange and black leopard pattern.

 

[Kerry]

Just for giggles, put the petcock on PRIME and go for a run. See if it makes ANY difference to anything. (Don't forget to set it back to RUN after!)

I had year-long driveability issues (including stalling upon stop) that I was going nuts trying to track down. That simple change cured all. (BTW, new petcock is on order...)

 

[MacGyver]

Just for giggles, put the petcock on PRIME and go for a run. See if it makes ANY difference to anything. (Don't forget to set it back to RUN after!)

I had year-long driveability issues (including stalling upon stop) that I was going nuts trying to track down. That simple change cured all. (BTW, new petcock is on order...)

Yes, that was one of the first easy to check things I learned about here and tried right away. The petcock seems to be fine as the flow is quite good on prime (into another tank) and in every other aspect the engine runs fine. The bike loves to zip along the road, but does not like to slow down or stop. I can't say I blame it, but it can be inconvenient, especially for a beginner rider like my girlfriend.

 

[Roger P.]

My 1983 550E always died under heavy braking as well. I wonder if it's a design quirk of those dual barrel carbs they came with? Did a lot of high speed running through Alberta back in the mid 90's on my 550E, including one memorable run out the highway to Drayton Valley where I saw an indicated 210kmh. My petcock was suspect as well, as the engine would often starve for fuel when running flat out for any length of time.

 

[MacGyver]

My 1983 550E always died under heavy braking as well. I wonder if it's a design quirk of those dual barrel carbs they came with? Did a lot of high speed running through Alberta back in the mid 90's on my 550E, including one memorable run out the highway to Drayton Valley where I saw an indicated 210kmh. My petcock was suspect as well, as the engine would often starve for fuel when running flat out for any length of time.

Hi Roger,

Looks like we traded locals. I grew up on the St. Lawrence river just South of Ottawa - take Bank Street South until you get to the St. Lawrence and stop. I moved out to Calgary in the fall of 1997.

I am now confident that the issue lies in the carburetors and very likely is related to the twined design amplifying the problem. What ever is blocking a pathway or what adjustment is required, the end result is affecting two cylinders. Combine that with perhaps a float design and mounting angle in the bike that causes problems when all the inertia is sloshing everything forward and there is your 'quirk'. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I had a friend help me check, quick clean, and balance the carbs, but at that time there were a few too many other issues affecting our efforts. I feel I have taken care of everything now except for the carb rebuild. The engine runs great at speed, there seems to be no issues with the main jets. The idle is now somewhat stabilized, there was obviously an intake leak and the wrong plugs with their larger gap likely didn't help. Hopefully the valve adjustment cured the lazy compression on #2.

It has been a great experience so far and perhaps the best part of it is in all my work I have only made thing better on the bike. The confidence and understanding this process has given me has been very valuable. If my KLR ever gives me grief out in the middle of no-where, I'll have the confidence to deal with it.

Say g'day to the Ottawa Valley for me and go to Hull - oh wait, they don't call it that anymore.

 

[Calvin Blackmore]

Hi Roger,

Looks like we traded locals. I grew up on the St. Lawrence river just South of Ottawa - take Bank Street South until you get to the St. Lawrence and stop. I moved out to Calgary in the fall of 1997.

I am now confident that the issue lies in the carburetors and very likely is related to the twined design amplifying the problem. What ever is blocking a pathway or what adjustment is required, the end result is affecting two cylinders. Combine that with perhaps a float design and mounting angle in the bike that causes problems when all the inertia is sloshing everything forward and there is your 'quirk'. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I had a friend help me check, quick clean, and balance the carbs, but at that time there were a few too many other issues affecting our efforts. I feel I have taken care of everything now except for the carb rebuild. The engine runs great at speed, there seems to be no issues with the main jets. The idle is now somewhat stabilized, there was obviously an intake leak and the wrong plugs with their larger gap likely didn't help. Hopefully the valve adjustment cured the lazy compression on #2.

It has been a great experience so far and perhaps the best part of it is in all my work I have only made thing better on the bike. The confidence and understanding this process has given me has been very valuable. If my KLR ever gives me grief out in the middle of no-where, I'll have the confidence to deal with it.

Say g'day to the Ottawa Valley for me and go to Hull - oh wait, they don't call it that anymore.

Gosh I was in Hull once....it was cloudy and drunk adn all the women were naked....it was the oddest thing.

You have doen a really nice write up on the progression of your efforts
thus far.

I wonder if it may be realted to a dramatic drop in vacuum upon deceleration causing the carbs to basicall stop flowing fuel.

One wonders if decelerating in 1st rapidly as opposed to pulling int the clutch from any higher gear would produce a different result.

 

[Larry D]

Naked women and beer ?........(ala Hank Jr.)

Where is this Hull place again ?!?!?!

Gosh I was in Hull once....it was cloudy and drunk adn all the women were naked....it was the oddest thing.

You have doen a really nice write up on the progression of your efforts
thus far.

I wonder if it may be realted to a dramatic drop in vacuum upon deceleration causing the carbs to basicall stop flowing fuel.

One wonders if decelerating in 1st rapidly as opposed to pulling int the clutch from any higher gear would produce a different result.

 

[Calvin Blackmore]

Naked women and beer ?........(ala Hank Jr.)

Where is this Hull place again ?!?!?!

Hullis in the province of Quebec just across form Ottawa Ontario.....
Maybe it all got amalgamated into a metro Ottawa area er something..

This brings to mind what soneobne told me once and likely stole forn another source...

"if God doesn't destroy Hull he's gonna owe Sodoam and Gomorrah an apology"

amazing the trade in flesh that surrounds a city filled with politicians and diplomats etc...oh and for a few days me.....

 

[mostholycerebus]

Still having similar problems here now. I replaced the intake O-Rings, rubber tubes from airbox to carbs, intake boots, rebuilt the carbs, and did the R/R mod. What happens is it starts GREAT and runs fine. I can ride it all over, but when I run it it dies on the road when i let off the gas and the RPMs drop. All i have to do though is hit the start button while rolling though and give it gas, starts right up and goes.

BTW the R/R duneage sends is not the right size for these bikes either. No prob though, i just got a 'joiner' bracket from Ace hardware and bolted that in, fits fine now.

 

[twiggy2cents]

i dont think they bolt on on any of them with out minor modification i think at least

 

[GSJim69]

Could be that there is some rust or something in the tank. You mentioned that there was some crud in the float bowls. I was having issues with my bike and discovered that rust from the tank was causing the problem. I installed an inline filter until I have a chance to properly clean up and coat the tank.

 

[MacGyver]

Still having similar problems here now. I replaced the intake O-Rings, rubber tubes from airbox to carbs, intake boots, rebuilt the carbs, and did the R/R mod. What happens is it starts GREAT and runs fine. I can ride it all over, but when I run it it dies on the road when i let off the gas and the RPMs drop. All i have to do though is hit the start button while rolling though and give it gas, starts right up and goes.

BTW the R/R duneage sends is not the right size for these bikes either. No prob though, i just got a 'joiner' bracket from Ace hardware and bolted that in, fits fine now.

G'day Cerebus,

That has happened to me a few times as well, but not so much after zip-tying the intake boots. The idle is pretty stable once the engine warms up. A quick tug on the front brake and the engine dies. Even just pushing the bike along and stopping it will kill the engine so any aggressive braking and you need to ride the throttle.

Once I get carb #1 cleaned up and the air mixture preset screws behaving as they should I will know I am on the right track. Currently carb #2 behaves and the screws seem to be happiest about 2.5 turns out which is what many others have reported. No one seems to be sure what the factory setting was.

I am pretty sure the previous owner replace the stator and R/R with an ElectroSport part. Foolishly he mounted the R/R upside down and the seat was rubbing and pressing against the wires. That was easy enough to fix and there was no permanent damage. Discovering the shorted stator wire and correcting that took a couple of drained batteries later.

I am getting close, I can feel it. Now I am just waiting for USPS/Canada Post to deliver me CycleOrings! Posts will follow. This time I'll be working on the carburetors with a much more educated eye paying critical attention to all the idle related parts.