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Time to test/repair/replace the starter?

cowboyup3371

cowboyup3371

Forum Guru
Past Site Supporter
I think I know the answer here but want to verify this is my next step. So after panicking yesterday about an electrical issue (and deleting the stupid thread I created), I bought a new battery charger for the motobatt I have. Based on the tests with my multimeter, I had:

13.2 after charging with key off
12.8 with key on
12.6 when pressing the starter button (this was at the battery, starter was getting about 12.5)

But I was still only hearing the click from the solenoid, no starter movement at all. I took the battery down to Autozone who load tested it for me using the CCA listed on impact batteries website (175 cca). They showed a charge of 12.98 and no problems with the battery.

Am I right then the next thing to test is my starter? I saw the procedures on Basscliff's site as well as the video last year by ArtbyScars and Steve on how to do this. I understand that I take the starter out of the bike, connect the battery negative to the starter mounting brackets, and the battery positive to the post that the cable connects to from the solenoid.

If the starter rotates it's good but if it doesn't something is wrong?

Or am I going about all this all wrong?
 
Wanted to add that Koolaid_Kid (on the phone) and I already looked for a drain from within the electrical system and saw nothing
 
So I tried shorting across the solenoid and no movement at all from the starter. I guess it's time to remove it and look at rebuilding the thing.

Does anyone know what to look for when looking for a rebuild kit on somebody like Boulevard Suzuki?
 
I'd pull the starter apart before I would be ordering parts. Sometimes it can be something as simple as oily brushes and a dirty commutator. The next step could be brushes, maybe bushings, but the big issue you need to look for is if the magnets have some loose. Those can be fixed too, just look for the thread on here.
 
A basic rebuild kit will have a set of brushes and maybe a bearing. Since it has to come apart anyway inspect the magnets, and clean the carbon off the armature where the brushes contact it. Emery cloth works great. Maybe take it to an auto electric shop and have them test it on a "growler" whatever that is, but apparently that's the definitive test.
 
cowboyup3371 said:
So I tried shorting across the solenoid and no movement at all from the starter. I guess it's time to remove it and look at rebuilding the thing......
.....
Click to expand...

Yes, assuming have good connection brom battery- to the engine case, that heavy black cable to back of engine.

Before can get a replacement brush kit, you will need to know if the starter you have is a Matshui (or something like that) or a Denso. One is 4 brush type other is 2 brush type. You bike could have either.

I could suggest looking at Stocker Electric.

.
 
Looking at how to remove the starter, I found one of two options - remove the cam chain tensioner (which Clymer recommends) or just buy a universal joint adapter for the ratchet. I'll try the second one first and use a rubber mallet and piece of wood to push the starter out of it's slot (according to what I found on here).

However, I'm unsure on one portion of testing the starter itself. In the video I found of Steve testing one, it shows he's using a battery with jumper cables. Can I also use my battery charger/maintainer to do the same thing or is that going to knock me for a loop?

Also, do I have to hold the starter in a vice/by hand or can I just set it on the ground? I'd rather not have it walk out of my hands if I'm not holding it properly but don't have a vise set up yet here.
 
don't hold it, it can do some damage when spinning. I think one of your brushes has a bad lead in and that's rebuildable. If the armature is worn down advertise for another starter, it's a lot of work to change it twice.
 
Hi,

Have you tested the solenoid?



Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
cowboyup3371 said:
So I tried shorting across the solenoid and no movement at all from the starter. I guess it's time to remove it and look at rebuilding the thing.

Does anyone know what to look for when looking for a rebuild kit on somebody like Boulevard Suzuki?
Click to expand...

BassCliff said:
Hi,

Have you tested the solenoid?



Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
Click to expand...

seems he did....

use your battery charger, and hold the starter on the floor with your foot, touch the + and - of the cables to the right spot on the starter, if it works it will spin, you don't need to hold power to it long, a second or 2 is enough, if it don't spin, it's time to rebuild, pull it apart, and see what went kaput....replace or repair as necessary

.3
 
GateKeeper said:
seems he did....

use your battery charger, and hold the starter on the floor with your foot, touch the + and - of the cables to the right spot on the starter, if it works it will spin, you don't need to hold power to it long, a second or 2 is enough, if it don't spin, it's time to rebuild, pull it apart, and see what went kaput....replace or repair as necessary
Even if it spins it would be wise to take it apart while it's out of the bike. There's a reason why it won't rotate the motor, so it doesn't matter too much if it spins or it out of the bike, except for the degree of fried-ness.
Click to expand...
 
actually I think if it does spin and it's out of the motor, it could be an indication of something else not working correctly/possibly

at least if it spins it tells me it's not completely fired and is working, if it don't spin and does nothing it's kaput, take it apart

maybe it's not engaging the gears to spin the motor, that would be another reason the motor is not turning over...

but I would at least try to make it run once out of the bay it sits in

.
 
I have not tried it, but I dont think even a 10 or 12 amp battery charger will run a motorcycle starter motor, even if it is out of the bike and thusly no load. But then again, the reason I have not tried it is beacause I dont think a battery charger will have enought current output to run a starter motor. Definatly not a float or maintianer 1 amp battery charger.
But, if others say a battery charger will run a motorcycle starter motor...okay.

Or try using jumper cables from the battery.

.
 
Last edited:
cowboyup3371 said:
Looking at how to remove the starter, I found one of two options - remove the cam chain tensioner (which Clymer recommends) or just buy a universal joint adapter for the ratchet. ........
......
Click to expand...

Also concider that need to tilt the starter motor up, to be able to push/pull it out. That is more why need to remove the cam chain tensioner.

Also, a mirror is handy to be able to see those bolts on the end of the starter motor.
 
Redman said:
I have not tried it, but I dont think even a 10 or 12 amp battery charger will run a motorcycle starter motor, even if it is out of the bike and thusly no load. But then again, the reason I have not tried it is beacause I dont think a battery charger will have enought current output to run a starter motor. Definatly not a float or maintianer 1 amp battery charger.
But, if others say a battery charger will run a motorcycle starter motor...okay.

Or try using jumper cables from the battery.

.
Click to expand...

Yeah a battery tender/maintainer won't work, better to use jumper cables to the battery.

At no-load the current requirement for the motor will be very low, 10A should be enough to make it spin.
 
So here it is out of the bike:

738e37af.jpg


It's interesting that I didn't need to hammer it out because it came out extremely easy. And you guys are right, the maintainer wouldn't provide the charge as it didn't see anything.

So I connected the bike battery and it spun. I don't know if there are degrees of "spunness" but I will still take it apart and see how things are inside.
 
OK, so you say it spun, was this by just attaching leads from the battery to the starter, or did you hook it up as it is in the bike and you hit the starter button ?

It should come out easy, it's really only held by the 2 back bolts, the seal in the front is only there to stop the oil from spurting out.

.
 
cowboyup3371 said:
......
..............but I will still take it apart and see how things are inside.
Click to expand...


CB,

I think you are going to find like this:
IMG_1056.jpg


IMG_1057.jpg


Brushes worn down to where no tension left in the springs. And commutator covered with brush materail burnt in.

And without taking it a apart you can see if it is a Mitsuba or a Denso. Need to know that to get proper brush kit.

.
 
Thanks folks. I came inside to post that picture, fixed dinner, and got comfortable on here so I haven't torn it apart yet. I can say it's a Nippon Denso though.

Even if I don't have to replace anything inside, is there any basic things that MUST be replaced just because I'm opening it up? I thought I saw an o-ring on the end of the rod; should I replace that anyway?
 
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