Top End Rebuild

[Roostabunny]

I think I traced a disturbing noise to a valve issue, so since I've wanted to rebuild the top end for a while, I'm going for it, hoping to find the valve issue in the process.

Looking for feedback on parts/tools list, if any, thanks! This is already going to be more expensive than I imagined at first. Head gasket and 4 x cylinder ring sets quickly get you over $200 without all the rest of the sundries.

But the hope is... 1.) Fix my tapping noise 2.) basically have a rebuilt engine that'll go another 10 years of daily driving.

EDIT: I'm not sure the exact mileage, as my odometer stopped working years ago, but I'd estimate at close to 75K. 4-5 years of 20-30 minute week-daily commutes + other riding after the clock stopped at 43K.

Starting with parts list, mainly for my own notes...

Parts:

Head Gasket - 11141-49410
Rectangular Oring - 09280-99003
Valve Oil Seal (1 per valve) - 11141-49410
Valve spring set (1 per Valve - as needed) - 12920-45011
"Cotter, Valve" (this is what the valve spring compressor releases - not sure if they need to be replaced as a plan or only as needed) - 12932-45010

Base Gasket - 11241-45110-H17
Big cylinder oring - 09280-70001
Littler oring - 09280-21004

Piston Ring set (1 per piston) - 12140-49001
Piston Pin Circlip (As needed?) - 09381-16001

Tools I don't already own:
Valve spring compressor
Valve lapping tool
Big vice grip or similar to hold down cams
2 3/4" (69.85mm) Flex ball hone

 

[terrylee]

Some of what you want or need to do will depend on what you find inside once it's apart. Also how many miles engine has on it. You may not need to replace valve springs, just measure them with digital caliper and make sure they still in spec. (get a manual off Basscliff's site if you don't have one, will list all these specs.) May not need new piston rings if still within specs. Valve lapping tool is about $6-7 at any auto parts store and valve grinding compound is not much more. Do want to replace valve seals. I would buy all the gaskets and O-rings then tear it apart before ordering much more. Check everything out and measure everything you should, unless you can afford it, then go head with plans. Will need to lightly hone piston cylinder, check ebay for honing ball, or see if someone on here could loan you one. Have to replace piston circlips. I'm no expert, these are things I was told before I did mine recently. Others will come along with more advise. terrylee

 

[ged]

Piston Ring set (1 per piston) - 12140-49001

Just check the part number for the rings. Your number is for the 1mm oversize rings for the 850. The standard size rings for the 850 are part number 12140-45120. I ordered the wrong size once and will never make same mistake again. Hope this helps. Regards

 

[tkent02]

Confusion comes from the fact that the 1mm oversized ring for the 850 is the standard ring for the 1000. Took months to get the right 850 rings for my 750/850 engine, in the end I put a 1000 engine in the 750 because it was so much quicker than waiting for the rings.

And don't buy anything from RideNow, they are completely incompetent and still owe me money.

 

[rustybronco]

Tools I don't already own:
Valve spring compressor
Valve lapping tool
Big vice grip or similar to hold down cams

Don't need.
Don't need.
Don't need.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d44/rustybronco/PICT3807.jpg
Your fingers work just as well.
Loosen the cam cap covers evenly. Tighten the same way. One turn at a time.

 

[Roostabunny]

Some of what you want or need to do will depend on what you find inside once it's apart. Also how many miles engine has on it. You may not need to replace valve springs, just measure them with digital caliper and make sure they still in spec. (get a manual off Basscliff's site if you don't have one, will list all these specs.) May not need new piston rings if still within specs. Valve lapping tool is about $6-7 at any auto parts store and valve grinding compound is not much more. Do want to replace valve seals. I would buy all the gaskets and O-rings then tear it apart before ordering much more. Check everything out and measure everything you should, unless you can afford it, then go head with plans. Will need to lightly hone piston cylinder, check ebay for honing ball, or see if someone on here could loan you one. Have to replace piston circlips. I'm no expert, these are things I was told before I did mine recently. Others will come along with more advise. terrylee

Very good! I do have the manual and digital caliper. Valve lapping tools/materials are cheap, and as Rustybronco mentioned, the tool (aka suction cup on a stick, I think) is not 100% necessary. I put the spring part# on there mainly because i suspect I have at least one that's failed, but yes, that's a "wait and see" part.

I'll look around for ball hones. I'd love to borrow one, for how often it'll get used, but shipping two ways might end up being close to the purchase price, so I'll figure that out. Any feedback on the 2-3/4" size for an 850?

 

[Roostabunny]

Piston Ring set (1 per piston) - 12140-49001

Just check the part number for the rings. Your number is for the 1mm oversize rings for the 850. The standard size rings for the 850 are part number 12140-45120. I ordered the wrong size once and will never make same mistake again. Hope this helps. Regards

Oh, Nice catch! I see it now in the description ... "PISTON RING SET (OS:1.0)"

I got this one:
PISTON RING SET (STD)
12140-45121

Which is (I think) the replacement part# for the ...120 one you put in.

 

[Nessism]

The GS850 and 1000 share the same head gasket. You may want to look at ebay for a good price on an OEM head gasket, and other gaskets as well. Viton valve stem seals from ebay have received good reviews by some members here too (rapid ray uses them).

Regarding the square O-ring around the cam chain tunnel, the later design head gaskets don't use this part so keep this in mind.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1978-1979-S...fits=Model:GS1000&hash=item27c99c3823&vxp=mtr

 

[Roostabunny]

Confusion comes from the fact that the 1mm oversized ring for the 850 is the standard ring for the 1000. Took months to get the right 850 rings for my 750/850 engine, in the end I put a 1000 engine in the 750 because it was so much quicker than waiting for the rings.

And don't buy anything from RideNow, they are completely incompetent and still owe me money.

Yeah, I'm thankful for ged catching that.

I've never used Ridenow, but after several mediocre experiences with BikeBandit I'm a little leary of any of the big parts houses in the clouds.

I've inquired with Z1 for pricing on these OEM gaskets and oil seals, we'll see what they come back with.

 

[Roostabunny]

The GS850 and 1000 share the same head gasket. You may want to look at ebay for a good price on an OEM head gasket, and other gaskets as well. Viton valve stem seals from ebay have received good reviews by some members here too (rapid ray uses them).

Regarding the square O-ring around the cam chain tunnel, the later design head gaskets don't use this part so keep this in mind.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1978-1979-S...fits=Model:GS1000&hash=item27c99c3823&vxp=mtr

Wow, that's a good tip for potential money savings!

I'm curious about the different head gasket designs. Are you saying that some gaskets incorporate or don't need that separate o-ring?

 

[Nessism]

Wow, that's a good tip for potential money savings!

I'm curious about the different head gasket designs. Are you saying that some gaskets incorporate or don't need that separate o-ring?

The MLS type gaskets don't use the square O-ring. Not sure about the full history though.

 

[Roostabunny]

Don't need.
Don't need.
Don't need.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d44/rustybronco/PICT3807.jpg
Your fingers work just as well.
Loosen the cam cap covers evenly. Tighten the same way. One turn at a time.

Yeah, ha - one of the things I googled after this post was "DIY valve spring tools". :clap:

Valve spring tool: I've seen the chopped socket designs as well as come interesting drilled pipe types - how'd you attach the socket?

Lapping tool: So noted. I have read quite a bit about the potential for overlapping the valves, and I could see how the tool would encourage that. People going all boy-scout-starting-a-campfire on their valves.

Vice-grip/Camshaft holder-downer: I think you're saying the point is to NOT allow racking/twisting force on the journals, but caution/patience works as well as a tool?

 

[Roostabunny]

The MLS type gaskets don't use the square O-ring.

I'm racking my brain here.

Wait, I'll get it...

Multiple Layer Subtractor?
Metallic Leverage Substance?
Martian Landmass Syncopator?

EDIT - Google to the rescue, sorry. MLS = Multi-layer Steel. I actually came close.

 

[Roostabunny]

FWIW - I added this in the original post, but for those who've already read this far...

I'm not sure the exact mileage on the bike, as my odometer stopped working years ago, but I'd estimate at close to 75K. 4-5 years of 20-30 minute week-daily commutes + other riding after the clock stopped at 43K.

Anyway, not low miles, but fairly well cared for. Just a data point, I'll still measure against the specs.

 

[GSX1000E]

The correct tool for the job, and one that doesn't allow parts to fly all over the shop and get lost, really does not cost much at all and can be used on other projects including your lawn mower/tractor, 4-and 6 cylinder car/truck, etc.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tusk-Valve-...0961613853&pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtr
Or, you can waste time/money doing other silly stuff like making a tool out of PCV pipe/modified socket, using zip ties instead of the factory valve shim tool (under $20) and breaking bolts by NOT using a clicker type torque wrench.
The choice is yours. :-\\\

 

[Roostabunny]

The correct tool for the job, and one that doesn't allow parts to fly all over the shop and get lost, really does not cost much at all and can be used on other projects including your lawn mower/tractor, 4-and 6 cylinder car/truck, etc.

Or, you can waste time/money doing other silly stuff like making a tool out of PCV pipe/modified socket, using zip ties instead of the factory valve shim tool (under $20) and breaking bolts by NOT using a clicker type torque wrench.
The choice is yours. :-\\\

So noted, and I appreciate the link.

I love my little valve shim tool (and my torque wrenches, for that matter), but I'm also not immune to spending $20 and 5hrs to avoid buying a $15 tool. So, I'll certainly do the math first on this one - especially at that price (thought the shipping kinda hurts).

My general rule of thumb anymore is not to build a rarely-used tool until I see what HFT is selling it for.

 

[rustybronco]

Valve spring tool: I've seen the chopped socket designs as well as come interesting drilled pipe types - how'd you attach the socket?

I drilled a hole in the C clamp and threaded it for a bolt.

Vice-grip/Camshaft holder-downer: I think you're saying the point is to NOT allow racking/twisting force on the journals, but caution/patience works as well as a tool?

NO! you MUST buy a tool for everything!

 

[rustybronco]

Or, you can waste time/money doing other silly stuff like making a tool out of PCV pipe/modified socket,

Or you actually make one and see that it works rather than taking about something you've never tried.

 

[cowboyup3371]

There's a good example of a valve-lapping tool that Steve made for me when I did my valves last year on Basscliff's site; it even includes instructions on how to do it.

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/storagecliff1/images/HOW_TO_LAP_VALVES.pdf

And nope, no issues using it either

 

[tkent02]

There is a much easier way to lap valves.