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Trip in 3 weeks and the battery is dead

  • Thread starter Thread starter Scudder
  • Start date Start date
Scudder said:
Have you performed any of the electrical repairs recommended?

Are the electrical repairs on BassCliff's site? I cleaned the connectors, etc.

scudder
Click to expand...
You have cleaned the connectors but have you done the bypass to the light switch? Have you added grounds ? Are you using a stock style regulator or a newer up graded one? There are alot of things that can cause what you are experiencing but a little maintenance may save you some money. ;)
 
Scudder said:
The bike is my 1980 gs850. I replaced the stator and R/R this winter.


What's funny is the old stator and r/r were not giving me any issues before I replaced them. I replaced them as a precaution before an extended trip. Perhaps I should have left well enough alone.

scudder
Click to expand...
Verify that your voltmeter is working correctly by flipping it on A.C. and plugging the leads into a power source.
If it checks out OK then, plug your old parts back in and ride it. If you don't have them anymore ping me...
 
I retested my stator after realizing I didn't have it on AC on my multmeter. The wires tested out at 66 amps in all three AB,BC, AC.

I will add the grounds, etc.

I appreciate at the advice.


Scudder
 
Scudder said:
Got home from work and did the quick test steps for the Battery to see if it is getting a charge. Below are the Results. It would appear to me that the batter is not getting charged because of the drop in numbers. I had the battery on a trickle charge all day and then did the test after removing it.

Quick Test Steps:

1.) key off................Normal 12.7 volts-12.9 volts
My 850s numbers: 13.11 volts

2.) key on (but not cranking with lights for 10 sec).....Normal 12.2-12.5 volts
My 850s numbers: 12.38 volts

3.) at idle (1500 rpm).....12.6volts - 13.2volts
My 850s numbers: 12.66 volts

4.) at 2500 rpm 13.5 -14.0 volts
My 850s numbers: 12.75 volts

5.) at 5000 rpm.....14.0 -15.0 volts
My 850s numbers: 13.10 volts

6.) key off.....slightly higher than measurements # 1 (12.8-13.0 v)
My 850s numbers: 12.41

So... I lost voltage. Right? I'm going to test the stator and r/r soon. Battery was totally dead and wouldn't even turn the bike over before I charged it.

scudder
Click to expand...

OK You can see that your battery is good after charging. It had a surface charge at 13.11 which us a bit higher than normal. It then old drops to 12.38 which is quite good. This represents a standard load (your lights were on right?

The voltage did not go very high only to about 13.1V and there was no fold back. This indicates that you are charging some, but how much we don't know without using the Stator pages.

Sorry your final voltage is much lower than where you started. You are not charging very much. Although your final voltage is lower, I think you are in fact charging some because you went from a key on of 12.4V to 13.1 volts at 5K RPM.

I would say your system appears functional and you just have bad connections or declining stator. Proceed to phase A of the revised Phase A of stator pages and see if you can detect large voltage drops that are keeping your charging voltage from going up.

Link to Revised PHASE A of Stator Pages:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3970459/stator-papers-phase-a-pdf-may-13-2012-10-43-am-55k?da=y
ORIGINAL_STATOR_PAGES

The most important thing to do checks at 5000 RPM which is typical cruising speed. You might find that you will need to clean your fuse box to get the positive side voltage drops below 0.2V at 5000 RPM. In steps #1 above you should of gotten most of the connections between the R/R(+) to battery (+) in good shape except the fuse box.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Scudder said:
Stator Test:

#1 Continuity test between the 3 stator wires: .6-.7 ohms

#2 Continuity to Ground: OL "Good to go"

#3 Output of stator at motorcycle is held at 4000 rpms:
Wires A-B: 56 v
Wires B-C: 60 v
Wires A-C: 95 v
Click to expand...
From what I've read from BassCliff, my volts on the 4000 rpms, needs to be at 60V or higher. So... is my stator bad? It's new. I guess that means my R/R is bad too, or the stator wouldn't be wrecked, right?

Maybe I'm wrong. I need some insight on this one.

Scudder
Click to expand...

Your AC voltage numbers are not symmetrical and are low which is probably accounting for a lot of your charging issues Even though you are getting OL on tests to ground, if you do the revised phase B tests where you check voltage to ground while at 5000 RPM you are going to see a low voltage. This means that the stator is already gone.

Why did the stator already go bad after you just put in a new one? I don't know; Did you follow any of the other recommendations did you verify the Revised Phase A voltage drops were below 0.25V at 5000 RPM?


The R/R is probably good , that is what killed the stator. Double check the Revised Phase A and Phase B tests to see if your stator is really gone.
Phase A will show low voltage drops
Phase B will show AC voltage leakage to ground. This means Strator is burned.


And here are some updates with background to the Phase B tests that focus on the stator alone.

A revised test is at this link; The actual test is on Page 6 of 9. We added the leg to ground AC voltage test as this helps isolate insulation breakdowns to ground using the relatively high 60-80 VAC stator voltage when it is open loop.

Link to Revised PHASE B of Stator Pages with discussion of testing methods:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3977567/dummy-load-scanned-pdf-may-14-2012-8-24-pm-649k?da=y
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
hjfisk said:
You have cleaned the connectors but have you done the bypass to the light switch? Have you added grounds ? Are you using a stock style regulator or a newer up graded one? There are alot of things that can cause what you are experiencing but a little maintenance may save you some money. ;)
Click to expand...

We now have a chorus reiterating the same thing one more time just because you cleans connections does not mean they are clean. There are crimps that can have corrosion inside them and if you are brushing the outside it is not sufficient. An old connection has to be either soaked in an etching agent (like navel jelly) and then soldered or replaced. A wire brush does not get rid of corrosion on the inside.

We could be talking about something as little as 0.1 ohms of resistance to cause an upset to charging (loss of 1.5V).

You have to test using the Revised Phase A tests to makes sure when you are charging to over 14.0V at 5K rpm the drops do not exceed 0.25V.

All of this is detailed in GS Charging Health.
 
rustybronco said:
Verify that your voltmeter is working correctly by flipping it on A.C. and plugging the leads into a power source.
If it checks out OK then, plug your old parts back in and ride it. If you don't have them anymore ping me...
Click to expand...


With 95 VAC on one leg and 50VAC on another it is sounding like a short in the stator.

An AC voltage test to ground should be showing something.
 
Scudder said:
Yes. Plugging the old parts back in has crossed my mind.
Click to expand...

I assume you are talking about the R/R as the stator will take more time.


Since you see to be maybe OK with the 66 VAC on the stator tests do the Revised Phase A tests to see if there are big voltage drops before changing anything. If the drops are bad , then you know you need to change the connections and grounding.
 
Scudder said:
I retested my stator after realizing I didn't have it on AC on my multmeter. The wires tested out at 66 amps in all three AB,BC, AC.
Click to expand...
Jim, it wasn't a valid test. AND his newest results are incorrect as well.

Just waiting on some good information to work with.
 
An equal 66 volts on all three phases using an aftermarket stator? It's probably just fine.
 
Tested the new R/R that I installed this winter. Everything checked out fine except when I had the negative multimeter prob in the red wire on the r/r. One of the wires tested at .717 while the other two was .47 and .48. Seems to me that .717 is a bit off.

Then put the Red =/+ probe in the red and touched the three wires to the black. All three were OL, or from my understanding good.

Did the same tests with the ground wire instead of the red + wire from the r/r and everything check out, except one of the wires registered a reading, or flickered when it was supposed to read OL.

Lucky I still have the oem r/r attached to the bottom of the battery box. Ran the same tests on it and everything checked out fine with no fluctuations in readings. One more thing.... Do the oem r/rs have a ground wire or is being grounded to the battery box sufficient?

Seems to me the old r/r is in good shape and the new one is messed up. However, I could be wrong about that, as you all well know.

Thanks for you patience. I am inexperienced in matters of electricity.

scudder
 
Scudder said:
Tested the new R/R that I installed this winter. Everything checked out fine except when I had the negative multimeter prob in the red wire on the r/r. One of the wires tested at .717 while the other two was .47 and .48. Seems to me that .717 is a bit off.

Then put the Red =/+ probe in the red and touched the three wires to the black. All three were OL, or from my understanding good.

Did the same tests with the ground wire instead of the red + wire from the r/r and everything check out, except one of the wires registered a reading, or flickered when it was supposed to read OL.

Lucky I still have the oem r/r attached to the bottom of the battery box. Ran the same tests on it and everything checked out fine with no fluctuations in readings. One more thing.... Do the oem r/rs have a ground wire or is being grounded to the battery box sufficient?

Seems to me the old r/r is in good shape and the new one is messed up. However, I could be wrong about that, as you all well know.

Thanks for you patience. I am inexperienced in matters of electricity.

scudder
Click to expand...

Do you really need to ask that question? Of course not :confused:

Ground R/R(-) to:
  • battery (-),
  • Harness B/W
  • and frame

with soldered or sealed connectors
 
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