Turn Indicator Issue

[Call Me Ahab]

Greetings all,

I've been working on a frame-up cleaning, painting, and general maintenance / rebuild. I've got the engine back on, and I'm working on the wiring. After several days of beating my head on the wall, I resolved an issue with my start and backlights for the instrument cluster.

I now find myself facing a new issue... I cannot figure out why my turn indicator lights remain on regardless of the toggle switch position. When I switch the toggle to "left", nothing happens. When I switch it to "right", again nothing.

I had to replace the left controls, which are tied to the turn indicators and the headlight. I Noticed that 2 wires were different on the new switch, but chopping them and replacing them with bullet connectors enabled me to restore function to the low-beam and hi-beam on the headlight.

Near as I can tell, after comparing the new and old switches and wires, consulting the wiring diagram from my book - the online resources at Bass Cliff's site, and his color diagram... I've got the wires hooked up correctly.

Would this be an issue with the turn indicator relay? Or perhaps my turn indicators themselves are incorrectly wired?

This is driving me insane. Of all the menial and mind-numbing tasks, sorting out the wiring has been the most irritating. Even more so than hand-sanding my frame after my sandblaster kicked the bucket

In any case, I hope you folks can shed some light on this before I go mad. After my wiring, all I have left to sort out are my brakes - then I'm street legal again and I can go break in the rebuilt engine

 

[Matchless]

Have a look at this diagram http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1471957&postcount=47
This should make it a bit easier to pinpoint the problem.
I do not follow you properly on this.
Are all the flasher lights on or only one side?
What happens when you push the flasher switch left or right?
What happens when the switch is centered?
What happens if you unplug the flasher relay?
The lights need +12V via the switch to come on, which comes in on the blue wire from the flasher relay if everything is wired correctly. Incorrect wiring or a short circuit in the switch may be the problem.

 

[Call Me Ahab]

Have a look at this diagram http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1471957&postcount=47
This should make it a bit easier to pinpoint the problem.
I do not follow you properly on this.
Are all the flasher lights on or only one side?
What happens when you push the flasher switch left or right?
What happens when the switch is centered?
What happens if you unplug the flasher relay?
The lights need +12V via the switch to come on, which comes in on the blue wire from the flasher relay if everything is wired correctly. Incorrect wiring or a short circuit in the switch may be the problem.

Thanks for that diagram! When I get back in tonight I'll check on the relay.

Okay... All lights are on, regardless of switch position.

When I move the switch to either side, the lights stay on, they do not flash, and the little light on the cluster will light up to indicate left or right. But again, the actual lights do nothing but stay lit.

I have that blue wire connected, I know for certain. But, I can trace it down and see if somewhere down the line it's broken.


Thank you, you've given me a place to start!

 

[Matchless]

If the all the flashers are permanently on when you switch the ignition on, I would not suspect the flasher relay, but unplug it anyway for the test.

Then start inside the headlight. Check that the green and black wires from the flashers are actually plugged into their green and black counterparts, going into the harness, with the ground wires plugged to the black/white wires. Unplug and check if the lights go off.

Then unplug the left handlebar switch connector and see if that also kills the lights. If so focus on the switch and the 3 wires blue, black and green.
Use a multimeter and with the turn signal switch normal, test between the green and all the other wires on the left hand switch multi plug for continuity - there should be none and the same for the black wire. Any continuity to any other wire will point to a wiring issue, a short, incorrect wiring or even a faulty shorted switch.

The power that keeps the lights on permanently is coming from somewhere, incorrectly, instead of coming from the flasher relay and thus bypassing the open switch circuit on both sides which is curious.

Hope this helps a bit.


Edit: PS I missed the part where you said the flasher indicator lights work correctly. This is interesting as they share the same green and black wires going into the harness to the flashers. Do you have running lights on your bike?

 

[Call Me Ahab]

If the all the flashers are permanently on when you switch the ignition on, I would not suspect the flasher relay, but unplug it anyway for the test.

Then start inside the headlight. Check that the green and black wires from the flashers are actually plugged into their green and black counterparts, going into the harness, with the ground wires plugged to the black/white wires. Unplug and check if the lights go off.

Then unplug the left handlebar switch connector and see if that also kills the lights. If so focus on the switch and the 3 wires blue, black and green.
Use a multimeter and with the turn signal switch normal, test between the green and all the other wires on the left hand switch multi plug for continuity - there should be none and the same for the black wire. Any continuity to any other wire will point to a wiring issue, a short, incorrect wiring or even a faulty shorted switch.

The power that keeps the lights on permanently is coming from somewhere, incorrectly, instead of coming from the flasher relay and thus bypassing the open switch circuit on both sides which is curious.

Hope this helps a bit.


Edit: PS I missed the part where you said the flasher indicator lights work correctly. This is interesting as they share the same green and black wires going into the harness to the flashers. Do you have running lights on your bike?

Okay... I resolved the permanently on issue: the wires were chopped and tied into a single 'hot' wire, they've been seperated and now activate only when the turn indicator toggle is activated.

However, still no luck with the flashing. I can get them to turn on now, but they will not flash. The relay looks fine, bulbs are fine, wires are all correct as far as I can tell. Time was short today ( yesterday by now ) so I didn't get around to the multimeter. Still working on this... Growing annoyed. The rear-right wire seems dead, I had to run a new wire from the front to the rear.

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Okay, for clarity:

Lights are no longer locked "on".
Turn indicator toggle will illuminate the lights, but they will not flash.
Rear lights have bulbs that t draw too much current, burns out fuse / kills relay instantly. Replaced bulbs, they now come on but no flash.

 

[Matchless]

OK, if you still have the original OEM flasher relay which does not flash but comes on solidly, then you may have the incorrect bulbs fitted. The flasher needs to "see" 3 bulbs per side, the indicator bulb which is 3 watts, the front and rear bulbs which should be at least 21 Watt each (The OEM were Stanley bulbs at 23 Watts). This means that the flasher relay will only flash if it has to drive the total wattage of about 45 Watts. If you have one 10 Watt bulb she will stop flashing. In some cases if you battery is not fully charged or you have poor wiring connectors the flasher only flashes when the charging voltage across the battery is higher than the battery voltage.

The next suspect would be your flasher relay. The OEM is a 3 prong with one wire for the automatic self cancelling function. You can replace this with any 12V 21W+21W after market TWO prong flasher relay from a car parts supplier, but you will lose your self cancelling function.

 

[cowboyup3371]

Check your grounds too; it's possible if you don't have each individual light grounded they won't blink either.

 

[Call Me Ahab]

OK, if you still have the original OEM flasher relay which does not flash but comes on solidly, then you may have the incorrect bulbs fitted. The flasher needs to "see" 3 bulbs per side, the indicator bulb which is 3 watts, the front and rear bulbs which should be at least 21 Watt each (The OEM were Stanley bulbs at 23 Watts). This means that the flasher relay will only flash if it has to drive the total wattage of about 45 Watts. If you have one 10 Watt bulb she will stop flashing. In some cases if you battery is not fully charged or you have poor wiring connectors the flasher only flashes when the charging voltage across the battery is higher than the battery voltage.

The next suspect would be your flasher relay. The OEM is a 3 prong with one wire for the automatic self cancelling function. You can replace this with any 12V 21W+21W after market TWO prong flasher relay from a car parts supplier, but you will lose your self cancelling function.

I finally resolved the issue...

He had removed the ground wire from the shaft, after replacing those I realized the front turn indicators are always on, they use a dual filament bulb 23/8w.

The 8w acts as a running light, the 23w is the turn indicator. The OEM relay was indeed fried, I replaced it with a 2 pole thermal relay from advance auto, and they now come on and flash!

I will need to find a different relay, however. This one is slow, pulsing every 2.5 sec or so. (Rough count)

Thank you so much for your guidance and info! This has been a serious pain in the arse, now that this is behind me I can worry about refitting my rear brake and cleaning the inside of my gas tank!

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EDIT:

The rear turn indicators are 21w single filament bulbs. It appears that this model uses a different system than my 850; this caused a great deal of confusion. I've repaired the wiring as much as I can, but I'm worried about a short. Will coat the splices with some liquid electric tape tomorrow evening.

 

[Matchless]

Glad you got it sorted.
Thanks for coming back with the all OK!