Valve guide job - do I need to do them all?

[bbjumper]

Ola,

You won't be able to check out the oil rings until the cylinders have been removed, if there is damage to the cylinders it will be readily apparent by looking down the bore. It is possible to remove the head without breaking the seal on the base gasket but not probable. Putting the head back on without a new base gasket is taking a chance, besides the only thing worse than doing this job is having to do it twice to fix something like a leaking base gasket.

Boulivard is great anytime and good prices, during there sale they are fantastic, I have had good luck and get great customer service.

As far as the now or later thing, I got that, that's why I did this type of work to my GS in February, I have a trip planned for Yellowstone in August with MiloBramble and I wanted everything ready for the long haul.

This is not difficult but read the book and take your time. Putting the cylinders on works better when you have help. Ring compressors are helpful but it can be done without them. I used two small slotted screwdrivers, one straight and I bent the tip on the other so it acted like a paddle. Oh yea did I mention take your time, when I did this I got in a hurry and ended up breaking a ring. I had about ten days to think about it waiting on a replacement.

New rings will not seat on a cylinder that hasn't been honed and yes, a good shop when they have all the necessary parts can knock this out in a couple of days.

Personally I enjoyed it when I did this, I learned a tremendous amount about my bike, and have the satisfaction of knowing that it is in the best mechanical condition that I can make it. Besides, this is great man cave stuff, turn on the stereo, a few cold beers, your GF is awed over your mechanical prowess, your buddies are over, life is good.

Keep us updated.

Cheers

 

[tatu]

Hi Ola,
As you're taking the head off anyway just get the machine shop to do the guides, take a lick off the seats with a cutter, grind them back in, a quick hone, stick in new rings because all will be disturbed, ride the snot out'v it for the first 100 miles (160kms) change the oil and ride normally, you will have a perfect motor then. You are clearly someone who likes it spot on, so just do it and remove the back of the mind niggle and sit back to fully enjoy your spectacular country and I might add superb roads. To be honest I'm with Tom, unlikely that you need to do it with those few meagre miles.

Bergan,, long time since I was there, cannot remember the number of times I've rolled out'v your taverns sloshing with beer, (sheesh its expensive there!!) is the Polar bear bar still there, Piano bar? to name but a couple. There used to be a burger shop on the way back to the dock that flogged the best burgers in the world with 1000 island dressing that I always made sure I had enough money left to get on the stagger back to the boat. In really bad weather we used to take the train up to Voss, I learned to ski there.

 

[Ola]

Oh lord, what am I getting myself into? First thing, I don't have a proper garage of my own, I have to use the dirt floored one at my mother's - when the weather is good enough that she'll be happy parking her rusting Merc outside. Second, since she lives an hours drive outside the city (southern end of Sotra island, not too far from Marstein lighthouse if you've navigated around here by sea, about 5 nm SW off the threshold of ENBR RWY 35 if by air) so getting there on work days is a chore. But from now until early June, so I have time to break it in, it can be done.

So going through the options again:

1) Do nothing, ride to Spain, fingers crossed
2) Pull the head, get the machine shop to do the bolts, change the valve guide oil seals
3) The whole nine yards, piston rings, valve guides, oil seals, have machine shop do bolts and valve seats.

While 1) is possible, 2) seems the most doable. 3) is daunting to say the least, will be expensive as well. Ordering from the states will be much cheaper, but I will likely be getting GS700 parts. As far as I know, only the cylinders and piston rods are different, the rest is the same. Can anyone confirm that?

And it's best to get the full gasket set instead of individual ones right? (Couldn't find it at Boulevard Suzuki.) Apart from that it seems I am looking at:

1. Four sets of piston rings
2. 16 valve guides
3. 16 oil seals
4. Helicoils, studs and cap nuts for the exhaust.
5. Tools.
6. Anything else?

Ring compressors and piston ring tool is locally sourced and cheap. Do I need Suzukis special tools for the valve guides? The manual lists a puller tool and a reamer. And what about moly paste or liquid gasket, best to go with OEM?

First job is to get my bike out there and start stripping it. It's in a shed (which I can't work in) outside my house and the front tire is leaking, might be bad enough that I have to change it first. No big deal in itself. But once there, I'll get the head off, take some pictures and post a project thread. I'll make sure I get lots of pics however it ends up, something which has helped me a lot in the past is an easily searchable, illustrated writeup on a forum. The time waiting on parts can be well spent decarbonizing the head.

Whew! Allright. A plan and some direction. And lots of excellent help already, thanks guys!

Tatu, were you in the Navy? Cool that you have staggered around in the streets where I stagger around at present. I don't think there's a bar called polar bear something, they do change names and owners quite often, but I fully and wholly empathize with the experience! I think I will have to go out and empathize about a gallon's worth tonight, to ease my piston ring nerves...


edit: I did a carb sync in 2010 which went well, but I do have some fuelling issues. It bogs at full throttle in the mid range, otherwise fine and smooth but the mix might be off as you can see. Have colortune and carb sync tool.

 

[bbjumper]

Ola,

Don't have any experience with your scoot but I'm sure someone on the forum does regarding the differences between yours and the 700. It might be worth a call to Boulevard to help clear that up also.

You won't need the full gasket set, once it is broken down you will be able to put together a full parts list of what you will need in addition to gaskets, it is generally accepted that OEM gaskets, seals and such are the way to go.

The machine shop if they have experience with these and air cooled four cylinder bikes in general will have the tools necessary to deal with the head in addition to getting everything cleaned up and checking the condition of everything. Honda Molly 60 grease is what I used on the cam when I put it back together, I wouldn't use liquid gasket on any of the mating surfaces except for those areas that call for it in the service manual if any.

Yes on the pictures, it gives everyone here on the forum a clear idea of what your up to and an opportunity to offer help with problems you come across.

The guys here have a true fondness for all GS's and are interested in keeping them on the road. Once you are done and have the carbs sorted out you'll be able to ride it another 108k.

Have fun

 

[tatu]

If you're working to a budget then leave the rings, I doubt there's anything wrong with them, you mentioned the compression's fine, I would tug the head and be careful not to disturb the cylinders. I doubt the guides are bad either, the machine shop will tell you. just do the seals and threads and grind the valves for good measure.
I know its different to what I said before, but if time and money are factors.
Depending on the machine shop (for threads) you will do the job easy in less than a day, and you don't need a heap'v space just need to get round the bike, I did my old 1000s on a narrow pathway in a terraced house in London when I popped a piston. The only tools I had were the ones in the tool pack and a very cheap socket set a old curious guy lent me who happened by. Thinking about it, you will need: a socket set mainly: 10mm
: 12mm
: 14mm
: 17mm
: 19mm
: extension bar, ratchet.
: a peice of wire or string (to tie the cam chain)
: number 2 cross head screwdriver
: 10 mm open ended or combined spanner
: 12 "
: 14 "
: 17 "
: 19 " Check this as it is to turn the crank by hand and it might be different on your bike. I doubt it though.
: a stout pair of pliers or the water pump kind, these are to grip the old seal and pull, they are tenatious buggers so you have to show determination.
: a valve spring compressor or a peice of wood to support the vlv as you push on the spring retainer and a mate to wiggle the collets
: a small flat screwdriver to wiggle the collets
: a small mallet to seat the collets
: an indeleble marker
: grinding paste
: vlv grinding stick
: moly slip grease, this is to lube the cams for initial start. ordinary grease with a squirt of oil does the same as it only has to hold there for a few seconds
: some solvent/petrol/rinsing agent to remove any grinding paste.
: torque wrench, Check the torques.
Spares you will need are: cam cover gasket,
: Head gasket
: standby base
: 16 vlv seals
: some clean rags and I would add industrial paper
: feeler gauges and is it 6 or 8mm spanner for the adjuster lock nut.
: a screwdriver to turn the adjuster.
Really try not to disturb the base or tear the cam gasket as it is long and tedious task to clean and can stall the whole job.
Don't forget to align the crank/cams before stripping and mark things if you feel that you would remember it better that way.
To take apart 35 minutes, maybe 45 if you're very slow.

I think thats about it, can anybody else think of anything else he'll need?
Its a breeze you will have no problems and people here will help you if you get stuck.

I forgot to add, Robbo's will also have everything you need in the way of parts too, just an option as they are closer. http://www.robinsonsfoundry.co.uk/

 

[tatu]

You will also need the O'rings fot the cam chain tunnel and oil feeds + stand by for the base if you disturb it.

 

[koolaid_kid]

Personally, I would get the full engine gasket set. It will include the top end gasket set which should include all the o-rings you need as well as the valve stem seals. You may need the bottom end gasket set if you need to replace the stator or work on the clutch.
I tried using aftermarket valve cover gaskets and had two fail on me in a row, one on a rally and one just riding down the street. Went OEM and no more issues.

 

[tkent02]

Oh lord, what am I getting myself into? First thing, I don't have a proper garage of my own, I have to use the dirt floored one at my mother's - when the weather is good enough that she'll be happy parking her rusting Merc outside.
1) Do nothing, ride to Spain, fingers crossed

1) Do nothing, ride to Spain. Or South Africa.
No brainer.
They sell oil in Spain.
Working on engines outdoors or in the dirt is never a good idea.
Just ride it. Crossing fingers is a waste of effort.
A lot of new bikes burn a liter in 1000 miles, in fact that is the standard for a brand new BMW. It just doesn't matter unless you let it run dry.

 

[gearhead13]

I have a full set (16) nos valve guides part # 11115-49290 that you could have for less than half what they want online.
pm me

 

[tatu]

1) Do nothing, ride to Spain. Or South Africa.
No brainer.
They sell oil in Spain.
Working on engines outdoors or in the dirt is never a good idea.
Just ride it. Crossing fingers is a waste of effort.
A lot of new bikes burn a liter in 1000 miles, in fact that is the standard for a brand new BMW. It just doesn't matter unless you let it run dry.

I would agree with you Tom but he's got the problem with the exhaust studs and certainly one'v them is in a bad spot to do it in situ.

 

[bbjumper]

Ola,

This is pretty standard around here,

check it out, another first timer rolling his shirt sleeves up and diving in.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=189521

Later..........

 

[mike_of_bbg]

Ola,

You might want to do some forum searches on broken exhaust bolts with the head still on the bike. There have been some creative solutions out there and solid advice. Heating/melting wax to get into the threads has a lot of promise. Welding a stick onto what remains of the bolt and using that as a lever to turn.

Sounds to me like your priorities should be:

1. Carbs/petcock sorted (smoke at start-up, if it's white)
2. Fixing broken exhaust bolts (head on if possible), though it seems you are not leaking there so that is not an absolute necessity
3. Valve stem seals, though this is not a necessity

Without a good place to work it's very dicey if you should go tearing everything apart if you can help it. It's not terribly hard work, but a clean garage would be on the top of my lists of needs.

In all likelihood, a trip to Spain in its present state is not out of the question. Just be certain to keep her well oiled.

Good luck!

 

[Ola]

It's been a while since I posted, thanks for all tips and encouragement. In the end I did nothing and rode to Spain. It was a great time, not without trouble, but no trouble which hurt. You can check out pictures and story here:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3503417

Teasers:

About half an Exxon Valdez in oil, but what can you do? I will do the oil seals, head out, this spring and I will document it photographically for the benefit of the forum. Gotta give something back right?

 

[bbjumper]

Beautiful country and an exciting ride. Good luck with the upcoming maintenance and let us know how it is progressing.

 

[eil]

I just finished reading the whole trip log. That was incredible! I'm not much for road trips or traveling but now I think it's time to reconsider...