Valve Shim Question, 1979 GS1000

[Meweeble]

Just checked my valve clearances tonight (1979 gs1000) and I don't seem to have any. The smallest gauge I have is a .03 and it won't fit between any of the shims/cam. I can rotate the buckets easily. I removed each shim as well and wrote down what was in each bucket.

Questions...

1: Is this unusual?
2: Should I just go down 1 size or 2? (The existing shims are either 2.80s or 2.75s
3: Also, would these tight tolerances account for idling issues and inability to accurately sync carbs? (I don't have any electrical issues, new intake manifolds, complete carb kits and I even took the carbs apart again and rechecked float height and made sure they were spotless)

Thanks,

Kevin

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

What that means is your valve clearance is down to the minimum. Not measurable with your gauge. I would go two sizes and put them on the loose side... ANd forget about adjustments for the next 10-20K miles

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Are you talking about .03mm (millimeters)? Or .003" (inches)?

Forgive me, but I'm easily confused.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Guy]

Everything on a Japanese bike is metric. Why do some Americans insist on measuring and quoting dimensions and clearances in inches???

 

[silverramsrt]

Everything on a Japanese bike is metric. Why do some Americans insist on measuring and quoting dimensions and clearances in inches???

Because "some Americans" do not have metric measuring equipment. It's an easy enough conversion between the two as long as the initial measuring units are KNOWN. Hence BassCliff's question.

 

[Guy]

If I lived in the USA and worked on my own Japanese stuff, the first thing I'd buy would be a set of metric guages, seeing as every measurement in the manual is metric.

I used to own a Buell, I didn't use metric tools or guages on that.

 

[Nessism]

If I lived in the USA and worked on my own Japanese stuff, the first thing I'd buy would be a set of metric guages, seeing as every measurement in the manual is metric.

I used to own a Buell, I didn't use metric tools or guages on that.

Can you chew gum and walk at the same time?

I use english unit feeler gauges and get by just fine. I'd rather spend money on beer as opposed to cluttering up the tool box with redundant feeler gauges.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Indeed, Mr. Nessim makes a valid point. I just wanted to make sure which unit of measurement we we talking about. That's all.

I use metric because sometimes I *can't* walk and chew gim at the same time.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Guy]

Can you chew gum and walk at the same time?

I use english unit feeler gauges and get by just fine. I'd rather spend money on beer as opposed to cluttering up the tool box with redundant feeler gauges.

Yes I can, thank you Nessism. Can you tie your own shoe laces yet?
Ok, I've dragged this off topic enough (though I think the first reply by SqDanceLynn answered the OP's question), but I'll just say this:

I don't get it. You guys pride yourselves in running and maintaining these fine old Japanese machines, and many of you do it to a high standard. But why are some of you so reluctant to embrace the metric standard they're built to? And to pompously declare metric feeler gauges as redundant?? If you can't grasp the metric system, then fine, just say so. But what are you implying by saying it's redundant, that it's somehow inferior to the good ol' American system of measurement? Are metric spanners and sockets redundant too? You don't have them cluttering up your tool box either?

I'm not necessarily saying that one system is any better than the other, just pointing out politely that each has it's place. I'm happy to use whatever's relevent to the machine I'm working on. Good luck with those shoe laces, I'm sure you'll get there.

 

[Nessism]

Yes I can, thank you Nessism. Can you tie your own shoe laces yet?
Ok, I've dragged this off topic enough (though I think the first reply by SqDanceLynn answered the OP's question), but I'll just say this:

I don't get it. You guys pride yourselves in running and maintaining these fine old Japanese machines, and many of you do it to a high standard. But why are some of you so reluctant to embrace the metric standard they're built to? And to pompously declare metric feeler gauges as redundant?? If you can't grasp the metric system, then fine, just say so. But what are you implying by saying it's redundant, that it's somehow inferior to the good ol' American system of measurement? Are metric spanners and sockets redundant too? You don't have them cluttering up your tool box either?

I'm not necessarily saying that one system is any better than the other, just pointing out politely that each has it's place. I'm happy to use whatever's relevent to the machine I'm working on. Good luck with those shoe laces, I'm sure you'll get there.

Okay, I'll try to slow down and explain so you can (hopefully) understand. Please let me know if you get lost somewhere and I'll explain further.

You can purchase a high quality Snap-On branded set of feeler gauges for $6.55 http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...&group_ID=1122&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog These tools are higher quality than the commonly available Chinese made junk that is so common these days. High Quality Measuring Tools = Happiness:dancing:

A standard set of feeler gauges, whether Snap-On or otherwise, comes with .0015", .002", .003", and .004" blades.

.0015" = .0381 mm
.004" = .1016 mm

As long as your GS valves are measuring in this range you are good to go.

If the .0015" feeler doesn't pass I change the shim. This size feeler gauge is ultra thin (think tin foil) and easy to bend/kink/damage, so I don't mess around with thinner even though Suzuki spec allows down to .03 mm. I don't like my valves running on the ragged edge of minimal clearance since the valves tighten over time, and this is just too close for comfort.

When I remove the shim I measure it will a pair of micrometers (not calipers). BTW, my micrometer is english measurement. When selecting a new replacement shim I measure all the shim pieces I have in the box that are the correct number and look for in between sizes. Many times you can find just the right thickness shim to get you to exactly the clearance dimension you desire.

Running the clearance up to .004" (.10 mm) is fine, but I insist on snug drag on the feeler gauge. If the gauge passes easily, I look for a thicker shim.

Bottom line is that there are a few fine nuances that should be considered when doing a proper valve adjustment, and having metric feeler gauges does not increase the quality of the work you perform.

 

[Guy]

Okay, I'll try to slow down and explain so you can (hopefully) understand. Please let me know if you get lost somewhere and I'll explain further.

I don't have any problem understanding the comparisons you've made. Indeed you make a good case for a specific set of measurements. You, on the other hand, have chosen to fully ignore what it is I'm saying and seem to have your head stuck firmly in the sand on this.

From Google:

Fact: The United States is the only industrialized country in the world that doesn't use the metric system as its predominant system of weights and measures. Today only the USA, Liberia and Myanmar still use the old English Imperial system. The rest of the world is metric.


What can I say? For what it's worth, I simplify my GS valve clearances with a simple method. I use just two blades: 0.10mm and 0.05mm. If I can slip in the 0.05mm but not the 0.10mm, I'm happy that I'm in the right range. if I can't slip in the 0.05mm, I need to go down one size shim.

My head hurts! I'm spitting out that chewing gum now. It'd choke me after all that's been said!

 

[7981GS]

Guy, whatever you do, don't even think of suggesting using a click-type torque wrench on these bikes either. LOL.
Your eyes will bleed after you read the responses.

Daniel

 

[Guy]

Guy, whatever you do, don't even think of suggesting using a click-type torque wrench on these bikes either. LOL.
Your eyes will bleed after you read the responses.

Daniel

Lol, I have one of them an' all!

 

[Nessism]

Guy, whatever you do, don't even think of suggesting using a click-type torque wrench on these bikes either. LOL.
Your eyes will bleed after you read the responses.

Daniel

Daniel,

I have clicker type torque wrenches, in addition to other types. In fact, I'll bet you a beer that I have more clicker type torque wrenches than you do. Clicker type is not bad, nor the best. They are decent middle of the road torque wrenches that serve most people well.

As far as metric vs. english units, who cares. I already have a high quality set of english feeler gauges and that's all that anyone needs to adjust the valves on a GS. Suggesting otherwise is silly.

 

[Meweeble]

Everything on a Japanese bike is metric. Why do some Americans insist on measuring and quoting dimensions and clearances in inches???

I'm not American I'm Canadian and we use the metric system. so it's .03mm

 

[Meweeble]

For nothing more than consistency and the inherent nature of the specs of the bike, I choose to utilize and quote metric. But I still have a question.... If my tolerances are really tight like that, around .00 what will the results be a low rpm? I seem to have a little blow back through the carbs and vacuum is inconsistent (hard to tune the carbs). Will setting the valves help? Oh and I did order a set of shims 2 sizes down.

 

[Nessism]

It's hard to say if setting the valves will solve your bikes running problems but it's not going to hurt. And if you don't set the valves, I guarantee the valves will burn up and damage the head too.

 

[Guy]

I'm not American I'm Canadian and we use the metric system. so it's .03mm

I wasn't assuming you were american or otherwise. I was responding initially to Basscliff's comment.

For nothing more than consistency and the inherent nature of the specs of the bike, I choose to utilize and quote metric. But I still have a question.... If my tolerances are really tight like that, around .00 what will the results be a low rpm? I seem to have a little blow back through the carbs and vacuum is inconsistent (hard to tune the carbs). Will setting the valves help? Oh and I did order a set of shims 2 sizes down.

Of course, it makes sense to utilize and quote metric, and that was my original point, but it appears to have gone over the heads of some......

But to your question, yes. You won't be able to sync your carbs properly with the clearances so tight and you'll end up burning up your exhaust valves and possibly the seats too. Loose and a little noisy is preferable to tight, and you won't need to worry about it for a while.

 

[Meweeble]

I wasn't assuming you were american or otherwise. I was responding initially to Basscliff's comment.



Of course, it makes sense to utilize and quote metric, and that was my original point, but it appears to have gone over the heads of some......

But to your question, yes. You won't be able to sync your carbs properly with the clearances so tight and you'll end up burning up your exhaust valves and possibly the seats too. Loose and a little noisy is preferable to tight, and you won't need to worry about it for a while.

Great.... because I've done everything suggest on the site and by members and this is all I have left to do. We'll see in a couple of days when I get the shims.

 

[Swarley]

Valve shim and valve adjustment

Valve shim and valve adjustment

I bought my 79 GS1000 last year and just had the valve shims checked by a Suzuki shop to find out what condition she is in. They told me they are in spec, just barely, and after a couple thousand more miles I'm going to need the valves adjusted or I'm going to burn up valves. They said they have to pull out the cams to do this, I was under the impression that this was all done by the shims. Why would they have to pull the cams? Thanks for the info.

Kevin