verifying connections on rewired bike

[Tukn20s]

I have a 1978 GS750 and its currently not properly charging. I purchased the bike as an unfinished project which the previous owner rewired the bike with basic wiring. I have not made any changes to the wiring since purchasing the bike but have disconnected/moved things to finish the necessary work. I do not know if it was properly charging prior to my work or if it never was in the first place. Anyways, I've been going through the stator papers trying to test the electrical components but i'm having some difficulty because of the altered wiring harness. I was hoping somone with a little more knowledge could verify if the following connections are correct or not.

Stator:
-Yellow - splits to rectifier and reglator
-White/Green & White/Blue connected together with white/Blue and white/red of rectifier (all four of these wires are connected together through one connection)
*White/green also has a yellow wire spliced in going somewhere towards motor/frontend area (haven't traced its exact location yet)


Rectifier:
-red - splits to battery and ignition switch
-black/white - ground
-yellow - ties in with regulator and stator
-white/blue & white/Red - connect to w/g & w/b of stator

 

[posplayr]

check against this


http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=153727&highlight=550+bobber

 

[Tukn20s]

Thanks for the link. I haven't had time to compare the diagram to my actual bike but I have been looking it over. This may sound bad but what are the Ignitor and Signal Generator labled on the diagram? Motorcycle electrical is new to me, I've only done basic electrical work with cars. And it doesn't help trying to fix someone elses work.

The only components I'm seeing on my bike are the stator, rectifier, regulator, ignition switch(aftermarket - turns power on/starts bike/killswitch), starter solenoid, and two wires coming out of the right side of the motor (not sure what this goes to).

 

[GateKeeper]

I see you read the stator papers,,,,,so your on the right track

sorry about that

I don't know enough about the electrical, to really help out and answer


not sure if you got your mega welcome package, but it is full of helpful tips and tricks, links and manuals, and so on

here ya go

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Thank you for your indulgence,

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[Tukn20s]

Thanks for the welcome package, lots of good information. I have been a member for a couple years but had to re-register.

 

[Tukn20s]

As for the wiring.......

I've been going over the schematics that have been provided and comparing them against the wiring on my bike. The two main issues I'm having right now are what the ignitor and signal generator are. Maybe these have a more common name I would be familiar with. My bike currently does not have an electrical component with the color/number of wires listed with the ignitor. The o/w wires from the coils are connected to a keyed ignition switch, and the white and black wires are connected to another pair of white and black wires going into the right side of the engine. I assume this to be the points (signal generator?). The wires are factory but do not match the blue green listed on all the diagrams for the signal generator so I wasn't sure.

Also, the power wire for the headlight is tied into the w/g from the stator. After reading about the stator, this seems very odd to me since the stator puts out a significant amount of voltage and is AC. I would think this would need to be after the r/r where it is switched to DC and the voltage is reduced. However, the headlight seems to work fine. Also, I would like to hook up the highbeam. When the highbeam is on, do both the low/high beam wires have power or is the lowbeam power switched off when the highbeam is switched on.

Finally, does my bike have a seperate rectifier and regulator or is it one unit? There are two small metal "box" units. One has cooling fins and five wires which i believe is the rectifier. The second is just a smooth square box roughly the same size. It has mounting tabs on either side and two wires - black ground and a yellow (yellow currently connected to the yellow of the other box). I can take pics if necessary.

 

[posplayr]

Thanks for the link. I haven't had time to compare the diagram to my actual bike but I have been looking it over. This may sound bad but what are the Ignitor and Signal Generator labled on the diagram? Motorcycle electrical is new to me, I've only done basic electrical work with cars. And it doesn't help trying to fix someone elses work.

The only components I'm seeing on my bike are the stator, rectifier, regulator, ignition switch(aftermarket - turns power on/starts bike/killswitch), starter solenoid, and two wires coming out of the right side of the motor (not sure what this goes to).

Your bike probably has a points ignition v.s electronic ignition.

With a OEM electronic ignition the signal generator is under the ignition cover where your points are. The igniter amplifies the signal generator output and modulates the negative side of the coils to get the system to fire at the right times. This is also something that you don't have as the points do that job directly.

 

[posplayr]

As for the wiring.......

I've been going over the schematics that have been provided and comparing them against the wiring on my bike. The two main issues I'm having right now are what the ignitor and signal generator are. Maybe these have a more common name I would be familiar with. My bike currently does not have an electrical component with the color/number of wires listed with the ignitor. The o/w wires from the coils are connected to a keyed ignition switch, and the white and black wires are connected to another pair of white and black wires going into the right side of the engine. I assume this to be the points (signal generator?). The wires are factory but do not match the blue green listed on all the diagrams for the signal generator so I wasn't sure.

Also, the power wire for the headlight is tied into the w/g from the stator. After reading about the stator, this seems very odd to me since the stator puts out a significant amount of voltage and is AC. I would think this would need to be after the r/r where it is switched to DC and the voltage is reduced. However, the headlight seems to work fine. Also, I would like to hook up the highbeam. When the highbeam is on, do both the low/high beam wires have power or is the lowbeam power switched off when the highbeam is switched on.

In GS Charging System Health along with many other places it is suggested that you are supposed to remove that loop.

Finally, does my bike have a seperate rectifier and regulator or is it one unit? There are two small metal "box" units. One has cooling fins and five wires which i believe is the rectifier. The second is just a smooth square box roughly the same size. It has mounting tabs on either side and two wires - black ground and a yellow (yellow currently connected to the yellow of the other box). I can take pics if necessary.

You should replace that with a single unit. See reference above for further help or look up HONDA regulator

........................

Read about GS Charging Health

 

[Tukn20s]

So I think I have this charging system under control finally.

The stator checked out fine. With the bike off, I was getting the proper ohm range between each leg. With the bike running, the output was over the 75+ volts. The rectifier also checks out based off the tests provided. I don't know how to test the regulator so i'm not sure on that one.

Anyways, after performing all the checks, updating a few connections and hooking everything back up, the bike is putting out roughly 13 volts at idle. I do not have a tach, so I don't know the exact rpm range, but i was able to exceed 16 volts with some throttle. I believe this is probably too high at any rpm range, so I plan to replace the regulator and rectifier with a single unit as suggested. Hopefully that will resolve that problem. Also found out my battery needs replacing.

It seems that problem was the headlight wire being connected to the stator wire. While connect, the bike would never exceed 11 volts. With the wire removed, I was getting the readings listed above.

Also, the PO never installed any fuses when rewiring the bike. I finally dug up the proper wire diagram for my bike, and it only shows a fuse on the red rectifier wire. In addition to this, I was going to add fuses to the headlight and brake/taillight. Anything else that should have a fuse (don't have turn signals, guages, etc)? I was hoping to use a fuse block that draws power from one line to cut down on wire clutter. The thought was to draw power directly from the battery and use a relay and keyed power wire to control the power to the fuse block. This will eliminate overloading the ignition switch. Does this sound feasible? Would a standard automotive/bosch type relay be sufficient?

Thanks for all info so far! Its been a big help!

 

[Normk]

A standard Bosch relay is a popular choice but two suggestions:

1) Buy one complete with socket as this avoids confusing the wiring connections if/when testing or relay replacement might be required.

2) These are available with various amperage ratings so choose a 30 or 40 amp one.

The best location for your battery power source is the battery cable stud on the starter relay. This avoids the battery connection problems such as corrosion, need to disturb when dealing with battery, insufficient clamping force due to softer battery post material.

You have some choices regarding the use of the relay. I prefer to have headlight and any other heavier loads such as bar heaters switch off during starting to reduce voltage drop to feed these loads from a separate relay than that of the ignition. Use standard relay connection (30 to power, 87 to load, 85 to switch) but instead of grounding 86 to frame or body, connect 86 to the starter cable side of the starter relay.

In this configuration the starting motor will act as the ground circuit for the relay winding (86) so the relay will operate normally when the ignition switch is on. When the starter relay operates, the voltage drop across the starter will remove the negative electrical potential at the starter cable side of the starter relay so the relay will open and shut off any unnecessary loads during starting.

Of course this won't be the way to ground the relay for the ignition coils as the ignition won't operate during cranking but is a nice feature for other loads.

The issue isn't so much that of overloading the ignition switch as it is dealing with the excessive voltage drop (loss) in that circuit.

My 1979 GS850G has a fuse box with I think, four fuses but would have to go to look if it matters. Suzie is barricaded behind a Honda TL125 and some CT90's so hard to reach. She has an accessory fuse which is separate from the main fuse box and which is now controlled by a relay to switch off bat heaters during starting.

A power saver for these low capacity charging systems is to convert to an H4 type HID headlight which draws only about 2.1 amps as opposed to double that for a conventional light. Far better output also but may require obtaining an H4 headlight reflector assembly if your bike still has the stock type 6012/6014 sealed beam.

16 volts is definitely too high so look for a high voltage drop unless you plan to convert to a single VRR regardless. A 12 volt electrical system should not have a voltage set point above 14.6 for a system of this vintage.

 

[ValorSolo]

As for the wiring.......

I've been going over the schematics that have been provided and comparing them against the wiring on my bike. The two main issues I'm having right now are what the ignitor and signal generator are. Maybe these have a more common name I would be familiar with. My bike currently does not have an electrical component with the color/number of wires listed with the ignitor. The o/w wires from the coils are connected to a keyed ignition switch, and the white and black wires are connected to another pair of white and black wires going into the right side of the engine. I assume this to be the points (signal generator?). The wires are factory but do not match the blue green listed on all the diagrams for the signal generator so I wasn't sure.

Also, the power wire for the headlight is tied into the w/g from the stator. After reading about the stator, this seems very odd to me since the stator puts out a significant amount of voltage and is AC. I would think this would need to be after the r/r where it is switched to DC and the voltage is reduced. However, the headlight seems to work fine. Also, I would like to hook up the highbeam. When the highbeam is on, do both the low/high beam wires have power or is the lowbeam power switched off when the highbeam is switched on.

Finally, does my bike have a seperate rectifier and regulator or is it one unit? There are two small metal "box" units. One has cooling fins and five wires which i believe is the rectifier. The second is just a smooth square box roughly the same size. It has mounting tabs on either side and two wires - black ground and a yellow (yellow currently connected to the yellow of the other box). I can take pics if necessary.

As mentioned, there is no ignitor on your bike. And yes, the regulator and rectifier are separate units.
See my sig for colored wiring diagrams. They show individual circuits in color to help trace wiring issues.

 

[Tukn20s]

I have a single unit R/R on the way along with a fuse block and I already have plenty of relays and sockets.

Valor, thanks for the diagrams. I havent been able to locate the correct diagram for my bike so that will be helpful.

Norm, thanks for the suggestions and wiring info for the relays. My ignition is a single unit that turns power on/off and starts the bike. Same setup as a car ignition. When the key is turned to start, power is cut off to the keyed power connection. My thought was to use this for my relay connection to switch off power to the headlights, etc. Would this work or should I still use the method with the starter relay you provided?

Also, does the red r/r connection have to have a direct connection with the battery, or can that be powered off with the other connections through the ignition?

As for fuses, I'm planning on a fuse for the headlights, brakelight, r/r. does that sound right? how about the points?