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VM26 pilot screws broken

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I took apart my second set of carbs for cleaning and noticed that the pilot screws (the ones under the carbs by the float bowls) were bent and had lost their sharp point. I can see the tips broken off up in the little seat holes. Is there a way to get them out? Will the carbs still function with them stuck in there? I blew carb cleaner into the hole, and it blew through to the pilot jet. Is there another little passage that is being blocked?
 
Re: VM26 pilot screws broken

renobruce said:
I took apart my second set of carbs for cleaning and noticed that the pilot screws (the ones under the carbs by the float bowls) were bent and had lost their sharp point. I can see the tips broken off up in the little seat holes. Is there a way to get them out? Will the carbs still function with them stuck in there? I blew carb cleaner into the hole, and it blew through to the pilot jet. Is there another little passage that is being blocked?
Click to expand...
On your carbs, for the pilot circuit, there are two small holes leading into the carb throat. One is regulated by the pilot jet. The other is regulated by the pilot fuel screw. The pilot fuel screw is for fine tuning the mixture. If the hole is plugged by a broken tip, you'll run leaner at lower throttle positions and warm ups will be slower. Some people say they've removed a broken tip. I suspect the hole is damaged in most cases though, leading to richness problems. Without the sharp tip, the screw is useless too, even if you get the tip out of the body. Don't try a larger pilot jet either as compensation. It will cause worse problems.
 
I could not get my 1000S to run right with 2 broken off pilot screws, ended up getting another set of carbs. :evil:
 
And while were on the subject, does anyone know where we can order these little needle point pilot screws? I got two from a forum member but I need two more yet so that I can rebuild my spare set of carbs.

Where to get them?
 
Hoomgar said:
SqDancerLynn1 said:
Try www.motorcyclecarbs.com or generic carb kits on Ebay
I have use a blunt safty pin to push the broken tip back out
Click to expand...

Thx Lynn.
Click to expand...


I sent an e-mail to see if they have the pilot screws.... they don't show them listed in their parts area.

I will attempt the safety pin to see if I can get the tips out..I'll let you know. BTW... nice air box, Hoomgar!! :wink:
 
Pricey!!!, but they have them:

Sir:
Item cost is $14.95 each plus S/H.
We accept orders and credit card payment on the phone (call 770.974.8851 M-F, 10-6 ET) or money order.

Sales and Service
Motorcyclecarbs.com Inc.
4292 Country Garden Walk NW
Kennesaw, Ga 30152
www.motorcyclecarbs.com
Phone (770) 974.8851
Fax (770) 974.8852
 
I have some from a spare set of junked carbs, if you get desperate
 
renobruce said:
Pricey!!!, but they have them:

Sir:
Item cost is $14.95 each plus S/H.
We accept orders and credit card payment on the phone (call 770.974.8851 M-F, 10-6 ET) or money order.

Sales and Service
Motorcyclecarbs.com Inc.
4292 Country Garden Walk NW
Kennesaw, Ga 30152
www.motorcyclecarbs.com
Phone (770) 974.8851
Fax (770) 974.8852
Click to expand...
I would see if the tips come out without carb damage before ordering. You may have to get some used carbs and hopefully the screws would be good in that set.
If you do order screws, I would contact them and verify the screw length.
 
renobruce said:
Pricey!!!, but they have them:

Sir:
Item cost is $14.95 each plus S/H.
We accept orders and credit card payment on the phone (call 770.974.8851 M-F, 10-6 ET) or money order.

Sales and Service
Motorcyclecarbs.com Inc.
4292 Country Garden Walk NW
Kennesaw, Ga 30152
www.motorcyclecarbs.com
Phone (770) 974.8851
Fax (770) 974.8852
Click to expand...

I got the same email from the one I sent them. 15 a pop! Wow!
I believe saaz is offering thos to you. if you don't want them I'll take them. saaz, if he declines please let me know what you need for them.
 
Hoomgar said:
Hey Bruce, here you go buddy :)

Read this! --> http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/viewtopic.php?t=38306
Click to expand...
Mark, I just checked out your topic about removing broken pilot screw tips and I appreciate the effort and it looks like it could work.
But in your pic's those 4 screws aren't broken, and what you removed was really brass plugs installed by the factory.
From my experience, some '79 models received these leaner carbs. Had to be for smog reasons. I don't know what the manufacturing cut-off date was that the change took place. I stopped by Mikuni Corp. here in town and the representative couldn't answer that question but one of his technicians verified what I'm saying. Bikes with the leaner carbs were de-tuned slightly to allow for this. I made a topic about the two kinds of carbs a long time ago.
I've been through a lot of VM carbs and the only 2 sets I found modified like this were both off '79 1000's according to the salvage yard. I can't say they're rare, but they're not nearly as common as the "standard" carbs.
If you use a set of these leaner carbs on a bike that came with the "standard" carbs, you'll have lots of trouble if you don't notice the difference.
If you do remove the plugs, the "blunt tipped" screws won't properly regulate the second passage for the mixture. The bike will run rich. Or at least a stock bike will run rich. You have to find the sharp tipped screws.
I first ran across this years ago while rebuilding some carbs. I could see/feel the plugs but wondered why they weren't that sharp. Removing the screws, I could see they were machined blunt and in fact were just "dummy" screws and I then realized what I thought were broken tips were really brass plugs. This was obviously a way for Suzuki to meet changing requirements and to help stop tampering.
Your topic is still appreciated but I wanted to let others know how easy it is too mistake the plugs for broken screw tips. I don't know how easily your tip removing idea will work on a smaller, sharp tip of a broken screw, but it might. The blunter plug would be a little easier to hit squarely and not damage the hole.
PS: I guess I get kind of burned out making longer replies and trying to cover every possible base. That's why I haven't mentioned these carbs for quite awhile. If someone was to bring them up, as you did, then I speak up. Perhaps I should have posted this at your tip removing topic but I don't like to "hammer" other peoples posts that are meant to help others. Maybe I should have so people can fully inspect what they have before messing with their carbs but I won't bother to type all this again. If you think this should be added to your topic so others have more info, then I'll leave that to you to add it.
Good of you to make that topic Mark. I wish I could post pic's with my messages like that.
 
I know what your talking about Keith. I don't think that is the case here though. Let me explain why I don't think so and if there is still myth in it I want to know so can pull my tip thread.

1. These carbs are the stock carbs of a 1978 GS1000C made in August of 1977 from what I understand. The VIN reveals it was one of the first few hundred made. The bike was one owner and according to the original owner all that was done to this bike was cosmetic and pipe and pods. He removed the grab handle from under the seat and the one on the seat to install the rack. He put a kerker header on it and removed the air box to install K&N pods. The carbs on it are the carbs that came on it when the bike was new in my understanding and I have no reason to think otherwise. If this is true then it rules out the scenerio you mention. But if they were replaced with a later model set of carbs, how can I tell? Outside of the plugs you mention?

2. Maybe you can't see it in the pics but the tips I removed are not all the same length and the bottoms are uneven. The tips of the screws are mangled and bent where the tips broke off from what it looks like to me. I can take some better pics if that helps? If you had them in your hand you could see what I mean. Two of them fell right out as I pulled the screws out. The one tip was still attached but it popped right off when I pushed on it because it looked cracked and mangled and was leaning to the side. Maybe it was just stuck to the pin with goo or something? It?s the one that is in the middle of the 3 screws together on the left in the first picture.

Is there any other way to tell? If there is a chance I am wrong about this I want to know it so I can both make sure I redo it right and to remove the tip thread.

Lay it on me dad :)


KEITH KRAUSE said:
I wish I could post pic's with my messages like that.
Click to expand...

You can, you just need to take the time to take me up on my offer to teach you :wink: :D
 
First of all Mark, I don't think you should remove your topic about broken screw tip removal. It could help someone who really does have that problem. I do think now that what I mentioned about the leaner carbs should be posted there and people can just inspect and make up their own mind what they have. Your topic is about removing broken tips, but people should not automatically see a "tip" plugging the hole and assume it's really a broken screw tip.
To me, the leaner/modified carbs are obvious after inspection. The plugs do have kind of a "mangled" look as you say. But the end of the blunt screws used in these carbs is machined flat. If you took a "broken tip" and tried to match it to the end of the screw, it wouldn't match. The broken screws wouldn't look like that on the end. I can tell in your second pic' that there's a plug in there, not the end of a sharp tipped screw. Like I said, I've seen all these plugs/modified screws you're showing, right in my own hands.
And I read what you believe is the bikes history, but I don't believe the carbs are the original ones.
 
Thanks for your response, Keith. IF I or Hoomgar DO have the carbs with the plugs in them, are they otherwise the same as regular VM26's? Is there just no adjustment for the pilot circuit? The screws are "dummies"?
 
renobruce said:
Thanks for your response, Keith. IF I or Hoomgar DO have the carbs with the plugs in them, are they otherwise the same as regular VM26's? Is there just no adjustment for the pilot circuit? The screws are "dummies"?
Click to expand...
Yes, they are the same otherwise.
If your carbs have the blunt dummy screws and plugs, there's no fine tuning for the pilot circuit. You would have only the one open passage to the carb throat, regulated by the pilot jet itself.
I can't tell without seeing your carbs, but if you do have the leaner/plugged carbs, you could possibly remove the plugs and get some regular sharp tipped pilot fuel screws to achieve fine tuning for the pilot circuit.
To me, the dummy screws are obvious. Their end is blunt and machined flat, not twisted or broken shaped. If what you have was really broken screws, the broken tips, once removed, would match perfectly to the ends of the screws.
 
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