voltage loss data

[focus frenzy]

ok here are the connections.
most relays of this type have four or five terminals and they are marked 30,87,87A,85 and 86. on relays with just four terminals there won't be a 87A terminal.

the power wire can be hooked up to the battery side of the starter solinoid or dirrect to the battery positive post. hooked to the solinoid that would be one less wire to deal with at battery change time. this wire then go's via a inline fuse holder (10amp) to the #30 relay terminal.

the output to coils wire connects to the #87 relay terminal and you can run two wires, one to each coil or run one and split into two at the coil end.

the relay is controled by the original coil power wire/s (orange with white stripe) connect a wire to the orange with white stripe wire and run it to the #85 terminal on the relay

then run a wire from the #86 relay terminal to a good ground.

 

[focus frenzy]

OK!!!!!
here are the voltage drop readings after installing the coil relay.

stock I found a 2.82 volt drop at the coils.
after the mod I now have a voltage drop of .05 volts at the coils!! \\/

good thing as this POS wallmart battery is rapidly deteriorating.
it was on the charger all night. I have a motorcycle specific charger that puts out a max of 1.5 amps and it switches to a pulsed trickle when the battery is fully charged.

fresh off the charger it showed 13.4 volts, turn on ignition and it dropped all the way to 11.99 volts before it stabilized.
the headlight is not plugged in so the only draw is the dash lights, tail lights and ignition.

 

[Kcwiro]

...most relays of this type have four or five terminals and they are marked 30,87,87A,85 and 86. on relays with just four terminals there won't be a 87A terminal....

'Question'

good point my friend went to NAPA to get the relays for us to do these mods (the store he was at did not have the specific one and the ones that did were already closed) .... they did have the five prong relays but we were hesitant to take one of those to use since I personally do not know enough if we can just leave that one un-attached or what.

Can anyone say in here that it is ok to use a five prong relay instead if so how would the connections work into that?

 

[focus frenzy]

'Question'

good point my friend went to NAPA to get the relays for us to do these mods (the store he was at did not have the specific one and the ones that did were already closed) .... they did have the five prong relays but we were hesitant to take one of those to use since I personally do not know enough if we can just leave that one un-attached or what.

Can anyone say in here that it is ok to use a five prong relay instead if so how would the connections work into that?

yes it will work.
read my post you quoted as it tells you how to wire using a 5 terminal realy.
you just don't hook anything to the 87A terminal.

the only time you will ever need the 87A terminal is if you are doing the headlight cut off mod. (kills headlight when starter button is pushed)

or want to do a side stand ignition kill switch.

 

[Matchless]

The 5 prong relays are usable. Basically the difference between the four and 5 prong is that the four prong has a connection for the relay coil, 85 and 86. The prong 30 is used to connect to the supply you want switched by the relay and the pin 87 puts out the input on 30 when the relay is operated. Pin 87a puts out the input on 30 when the relay is normal (not operated) and moves it to 87 when the relay is operated, so just disregard 87a if you are using it as an on off switch only

Always test an unknown relay as there are some that have either one of the contacts bridged internally to the frame or one pole of the coil. They are more custom, but can cause damage. It is used say to switch the same potential that is used to operate the coil and saves on an external bridge.

In more technical terms the 4 pin relay only has a make contact and the 5 pin relay has a changeover contact.

Hope this helps

 

[Kcwiro]

the only time you will ever need the 87A terminal is if you are doing the headlight cut off mod. (kills headlight when starter button is pushed)

or want to do a side stand ignition kill switch.

Headlight cutoff mod?..side stand kill switch ( I don't have one of those, maybe I want to make one since i forget on rare occasion ) ... this might be good to do on my friends 83 gs550e ... he has a headlight that turns on with ignition... I still have the switch.

Can you explain this further?

 

[Matchless]

I have just posted a copy of a schematic for doing all the relay requirements in one go. The excellent guidance by Focus Frenzy on the coil relay prompted me to finish this as the horn and the headlights have similar problems and sometimes its easier doing all at the same time. I think Focus Frenzy gives a much better description in this thread on what and how to do it.
Have a look here: http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=121673 and if there are any discrepancies just shout as its new off the press and may have some oversights in it.
Hope it helps someone.

 

[focus frenzy]

I really need to map out the mods I have done again. (lost to vista)
I have 4 relays on my 1000G and it don't have the coil relay mod! LOL

I have my headlight controlled by two relays but one just turns off the headlight momentarily when the starter is engaged. the other one controls the low and high beam.

 

[Matchless]

I really need to map out the mods I have done again. (lost to vista)
I have 4 relays on my 1000G and it don't have the coil relay mod! LOL

I have my headlight controlled by two relays but one just turns off the headlight momentarily when the starter is engaged. the other one controls the low and high beam.

I like the one for disconnecting the headlight when turning the starter! Have to work that one in sometime as well!

 

[Kcwiro]

Can we get a doc that shows the stuff for adding the headlight disconnect when the starter is engaged? ... I think my coil mod just got extended to include all this... :-D

 

[Steve]

I'll try to draw one of those up. Give me a few minutes. 8-[

.

 

[Kcwiro]

I'll try to draw one of those up. Give me a few minutes. 8-[

.

excellent...

total number of parts and such always helps a ton too... I always forget to count everything right and then I have to make multiple trips to the store which is really silly...pics are always a huge plus like Bass said... I also 'like pictures'

....take your time I like easy to read if it means I have to wait longer I am not going to die over it... wait what am I saying... HURRY!!!:-D

 

[Steve]

OK, "a few minutes" is now up, here is the schematic.

.

 

[twistedwankel]

OK, "a few minutes" is now up, here is the schematic.

.

Okay. I have observed all the posts for the last 5 years and finally replaced the bullet connectors with aluminum spades. It's all in spades now. Seeing 13.8VDC at idle and minimal headlight blink with a turn signal on.

So in five more years where does this relay go??? Hopefully I'll get 1/2 the states covered as Steve before I have to do that

 

[Steve]

So ... where does this relay go???

It's a small relay, about a 1-inch cube, plus a mounting tab. To keep wiring short, mount it somewhere near the fuse panel, around the battery box and starter solenoid.

To make things easier, here are links for the parts: Relay and Socket with 12" wires.
The power wires are 14 gauge, which is appropriate for headlight use, and the trigger wires are 18 gauge, again very adequate.

.

 

[Tmwnni]

Let me first say hello to everyone, as this is my first post. Been a long time reader of these forums, some of you may know of me, as Kcwiro often refers to me in his posts as "his friend".

So Kc and I have been glued to this thread, and got started on my 83 GS550E, when we ran into a little confusion. The coils had the orange/white wires (from the kill switch) attached to the negative terminals, and the grounds attached to the positive ones......

We are using a 5 terminal relay (30 85 86 87 87a of course) with the goal of having increased voltage at the coil and a headlight cutoff.

We've gone ahead and wired the 87 terminal to the coil +'s (double checked :-D), hooked the orange/white killswitch wires into the 86 terminal, and hooked the coil ground wires (which WERE on the coil +'s) into the negative terminals

Our concern is with those wires being backwards..... can a coil operate with this? Or would it do damage? I don't want to try and start the thing and end up needing to buy a new coil, but I'm inclined to hook these guys up according to the markings on the parts, not where the wires were before. Btw this 550e was in perfect running condition before we started this operation, so this has me confused

Also, about the headlight (87a) wire: in one of the earlier posts someone was saying to find the wire that runs from the headlight fuse up to the handlebars..... anyone know what color it should be? Just as a guide to help me out....

 

[focus frenzy]

Let me first say hello to everyone, as this is my first post. Been a long time reader of these forums, some of you may know of me, as Kcwiro often refers to me in his posts as "his friend".

So Kc and I have been glued to this thread, and got started on my 83 GS550E, when we ran into a little confusion. The coils had the orange/white wires (from the kill switch) attached to the negative terminals, and the grounds attached to the positive ones......

We are using a 5 terminal relay (30 85 86 87 87a of course) with the goal of having increased voltage at the coil and a headlight cutoff.

We've gone ahead and wired the 87 terminal to the coil +'s (double checked :-D), hooked the orange/white killswitch wires into the 86 terminal, and hooked the coil ground wires (which WERE on the coil +'s) into the negative terminals

Our concern is with those wires being backwards..... can a coil operate with this? Or would it do damage? I don't want to try and start the thing and end up needing to buy a new coil, but I'm inclined to hook these guys up according to the markings on the parts, not where the wires were before. Btw this 550e was in perfect running condition before we started this operation, so this has me confused

Also, about the headlight (87a) wire: in one of the earlier posts someone was saying to find the wire that runs from the headlight fuse up to the handlebars..... anyone know what color it should be? Just as a guide to help me out....

coils will work eather way it just changes the polarity of the spark, if you have a sharp eye you can see one plug on a coil fires the spark from the center to the out side and the other fires from the outside to the center electrode. some late model cars use two differant spark plugs for this reason as you need the platnum on the positive firing electrode.
Ford used to use two differant plugs but ended up changing to plugs with platnum on both the center and ground electrodes.

for the headlight mod that kills the headlight when the starter button is pushed, I installed mine on the ground side as I also have a relay that sends dirrect power to the headlight (much brighter)
to put it on the ground side you will need to cut the ground wire (black with white stripe) a short distance from the headlight socket, and splice in the leads that go to the relay.
placement of the relay depends on the bike but I found that a micro relay will fit in pretty much any headlight bucket, but standard generic VF-4 type relays don't fit in all due to clearance issues.
you run one of the ground leads to the 30 terminal and the other to the 87A terminal.

the wire for the 85 terminal goes to the wire COMING FROM the starter button. it will need to be spliced in and a simple cheep test light can be used to confirm the wire (green with yellow stripe) as that color wire does more than just the starter button on some bikes.
you hook a new ground ground wire from the 86 terminal and connect it to a good ground. on my 1000G there is a extra unused ground wire in the headlight bucket and I used that.

this is the relay I used and like using for other mods except the master relay as it is nice and small.
http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/TE/bin/TE.Connect?C=1&M=BYPN&TCPN=1393293-8&RQPN=VFMA-15F41-S01

you can get one by asking for a headlight, or fog light relay for a Ford Focus. OK, parts people are for the most part idiots and only do what a machine tells them so tell them you need fog light relay for a 2001 Ford Focus ZX3, twin cam engine, 5 speed manual transmission, AC, manual windows. (I have been asked all that and I just needed a freaking dome light bulb)
now most of the VFMA relays are marked with 1 through 5 instead of 85,86,30,87,87A so here is the cross referance.

30= 3
87= 5
87A= 4
85= 1
86= 2

1 and 2 are for control and ground, polarity is not important, but I use 1 as +
3 is battery power in
4 is normaly on output, when relay is not energized by input on 85 (or86) power passes through 4
you only use terminal 4 when using relay to interupt a circuit (head light interupt)
5 is switched output, used when using relay to power something.

 

[Kcwiro]

if i am understanding this correctly.. I myself will be doing the headlight mod for getting a brighter output. For that I will need a second relay in addition to the one five prong I already have is that correct?


If so do these two relays tie together or are they seperate?.. I am getting lost here... maybe a pic of the setup would clear it up or yet another diagrom =)

 

[focus frenzy]

if i am understanding this correctly.. I myself will be doing the headlight mod for getting a brighter output. For that I will need a second relay in addition to the one five prong I already have is that correct?


If so do these two relays tie together or are they seperate?.. I am getting lost here... maybe a pic of the setup would clear it up or yet another diagrom =)

give me a few hours I have a errand I have to do and I will then try and draw up something for you. (and any one else interested.

 

[Tmwnni]

FocusFrenzy, thanks for the quick info! I had suspected as much for the coils.

Now let me see if i'm reading you right on the rest of this, i'll fully explain my current setup:

87 to the coils
87a nothing...yet
86 to (both) orange/white wires
85 to ground
30 to + solo termnial

So if i'm doing JUST the coil mod, this is it right?

If i'm understanding the headlight part correctly, i think your saying that i need to change my 86 terminal so instead of energizing the relay via the two orange/white killswitch wires, the relay is energized via the starter button (Green/Yellow wire)? If this is the case, then how does the kill switch factor in? Or maybe i'm supposed to be using a second relay?????

Also, the 87a wire seems to have voltage, is it a good idea to plug it into the ground side of the headlight? Or are you running it into a second relay that's already there for that brightness mod?

Thanks in advance for clarification on this, i know we're all really beating the dead horse in this thread! I just can't quite figure out it how all the controls and everything still work as soon as that headlight/starter button thing is added...