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Weeping

  • Thread starter Thread starter BadMonk
  • Start date Start date
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BadMonk

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A couple months ago, I got the '81 GS850GLX back together. There wasn't much time to ride because a '87 Honda GL1200 was taking up my spare time. But the 850 got started every few days and there were some short rides too. It ran fine up to about 50 miles on the trip meter. At that point, a very small bit of oil was weeping from the left side, at the rear...base gasket. It was barely noticeable.

After squaring away the GL1200, I got to ride both bikes more. The more the 850 ran, the more it wept until...I added a touch more oil. I like my bikes to be filled half-way, not much more or less. After adding the oil to the full line, it did what I thought. Weeping turned into leaking on start up.

Obviously, I have to get back down to the base gasket. Can the cylinders be pulled with the motor/crankcase in the frame?
 
When replacing everything 150 miles ago, I knew that I should have used Suzuki gaskets. But it was an entire rebuild and got real expensive so I went with Versah (sp?) which I read were okay. I'll go Suzuki this time. O-rings and head gaskets should be okay. Thanks...glad it can be done without yanking the motor again. I think I've had it out three times so far.
 
Did you retorque the head after a few heat cycles?
 
uh-huh and it looks like i'll be doing it again...once i fix the leak at the cylinder base.
 
Got everything pulled off the motor and waiting for new gaskets.

Things I didn't expect to see at first. 1) Excessive pools of oil in the head. The motor has new rings. When the bike had a slight oil weep, the motor consistently pulled nice and strong on the road. No smokey exhaust. It was a good little ripper. After the weep turned into a leak, it hasn't been on the road. 2) The head gasket's middle section at the rear was wrecked. The soft coating was gone leaving exposed metallic center. So I believe the weep/leak was from there. The oil then found it's lowest point making it look like the leak was at the left side of the base gasket (which was intact). 3) The pistons were sparkling clean when I put them in hundred+ miles ago. #one was still clean as a whistle. The other three had been burning some oil, especially two and three.

I ordered OEM Suzuki gaskets this time. The ruined head gasket didn't appear to be pinched, folded, cut, etc. Looks like it just blew apart to me.

So it seems like the head gasket blew apart then allowing oil to pass from the cylinders into the head, esp 2 and 3 nearest the blowout. The oil would be forced into the head where it pooled. Wouldn't take much time for it to happen. Pressure would do the job pretty quick. Does that sound reasonable? The pooling of oil has my attention even though it was running very well before the leak.
 
Hey Steve.
Yeah, I realize that now. After writing the post, did some research.
So now I'm not as concerned. Thanks!
 
As Ed mentioned don't forget to re torque the head after a few heat cycles, if the new head gasket is a multi layered steel one you do not use the rectangular o ring for the cam tunnel.
 
fastbysuzuki said:
if the new head gasket is a multi layered steel one you do not use the rectangular o ring for the cam tunnel.
Click to expand...

that's something i've not heard of until now. did suzuki make two different kinds of gaskets under the same part number?
 
The Suzuki part number for the head gasket has been updated and consolidated a few times. The same part number is now used for the 8 valve GS850, GS1000 (both shaftie and chain), and GS1100 models.

Punch in 11141-49410 here, and click "where used".
https://www.onlinecycleparts.com/oemparts/partsearch/suzuki

And yeah, the new head gasket doesn't need the cam chain tunnel o-ring.


Sorry you had to find out Vesrah gaskets are junk like this. I don't know where you read they're OK, but it wasn't here. Make sure you replace the base gasket and those weird little pear shaped base gasket o-rings.
 
Yeah, I know about part consolidation and often questioned how that happens years later. I've seen it with other brands too not just Suzuki GS bikes.

Thanks for the info on the tunnel O-ring. I wouldn't have know that since the parts list shows the O-ring in tandem with the head gasket. Good to know.

I've heard about Vesrah gaskets being okay on other sites but it doesn't take much to find positive words on this site.. "I installed them a few years ago, they have been just fine since" Do a quick search, you'll see what I mean. Of course others have said the opposite. Opinions vary...not a surprise. I'd have said they're okay cuz they've held on a Kawi rebuild that I did. Now, not so much.
 
I used Vesrah for years, and they were fine - every bit as good as OEM back then. I don't know about now, but there's always the (strong) possibility that they've been counterfeited, and who knows what you buy in good faith from what source, and what shady source they had.
Even buying OEM has its pitfalls - if you buy something OEM that's been at the back of a store for several years, the simple passing of time can wreak havoc on rubbers and some other materials.
 
Ball park guesstimate. Complaints here about engine gaskets, after market outnumber OEM at least 20 to 1.
There are some pretty experienced heads amongst the aftermarket complainers so workmanship can be ruled out as a significant factor.
Three summers ago I did the base, head and valve seals with a €60 full engine set of NE gaskets. So far so good.
However the fire rings did not align perfectly with the cylinders, the dowel holes had to be enlarged and the stem seals got tossed during assembly and replaced with Athena.
After a few heat cycles I got a full half turn or more on the headbolts.
 
Brendan W said:
Ball park guesstimate. Complaints here about engine gaskets, after market outnumber OEM at least 20 to 1.
There are some pretty experienced heads amongst the aftermarket complainers so workmanship can be ruled out as a significant factor.
Three summers ago I did the base, head and valve seals with a €60 full engine set of NE gaskets. So far so good.
However the fire rings did not align perfectly with the cylinders, the dowel holes had to be enlarged and the stem seals got tossed during assembly and replaced with Athena.
After a few heat cycles I got a full half turn or more on the headbolts.
Click to expand...

I was hoping you'd update on that, as I bought an NE gasket set on the chance it would be ok in the long term. I've already installed some Viton valve stem seals, so next is to complete the assembly soon-ish. I have an OEM base gasket in stock, so I'll use that instead of the NE one.
 
Grimly said:
I was hoping you'd update on that, as I bought an NE gasket set on the chance it would be ok in the long term. I've already installed some Viton valve stem seals, so next is to complete the assembly soon-ish. I have an OEM base gasket in stock, so I'll use that instead of the NE one.
Click to expand...

The old base gasket came off eventually revealing a load of gouge marks. I sprayed the NE gasket with high build high temperature aluminium paint after double checking with the manufacturer that it actually had aluminium in it. So far so good despite it being the famous green colour :)
The local bike shop let me borrow their tube of the special something bond for the tunnel ring on the top deck in return for a small donation to the RNLI
 
Brendan W said:
The old base gasket came off eventually revealing a load of gouge marks. I sprayed the NE gasket with high build high temperature aluminium paint after double checking with the manufacturer that it actually had aluminium in it. So far so good despite it being the famous green colour :)
The local bike shop let me borrow their tube of the special something bond for the tunnel ring on the top deck in return for a small donation to the RNLI
Click to expand...
I still haven't removed the second half of the base gasket - gradually softened, scraped, softened, scraped my way down through half of its thickness, but it's like linoleum. It's genuinely the hardest gasket I've encountered, but 38 years of heat and pressure will do that, obviously.
I'll get it off eventually, but the difficulty is leaving minimal marks. I wondered about the Roloc abrasive 3M scrubbers, how effective they'd be against this, but it's a gamble. If there was a deadline on it, I'd have dropped the liners out and got the base machined flat, no problem, and not really much cost.
 
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