Well, it is my turn for troubleshooting

[Redman]

Does that mean that you just have to fix the wire, and not replace the stator?
..

No, stator internal short to ground.

Oh, wait. Maybe it is in the wiring to the stator, not the stator windings itself. Hum, had not thought of that. Will be popping off the stator cover today or tommorow. I should look at that (but new replacement stator is on the way, should have Thursday).

...
...If that's too expensive, just sell me your bike for the cost of a new stator.
You can drive to Newaygo and buy some jerkey with the money.
Bill

How about I give you the new stator and my engine in trade for your engine. THen if dont really need the new stator you will come out ahead. (and I will get an engine that runs better har har).

And I do need another run to Newaygo as I am out of Jerky (that stuff at gas station dont count).

And do look in Meetingplace for your opportunity to make a Newaygo run.

Dave

 

[bakalorz]

My comments in red to make it easier to put them inline

O.K., that shows a magic "black box" in the IC sensor. If we imagine the voltage coming in the black wire, part of it probably goes to ground, activating something inside the IC sensor. This may be the path you are exercising when you perform a diode check on the black wire.

You shouldn't be checking the black (sense) wire.
The diode checks only apply to yellow-green and yellow-red/white. The black wire will most likely read as open for any of the diode checks, but what-ever it is doesn't matter.

Part of the voltage may go to each diode line (or it could be merely completing a circuit, allowing current to flow). Since the 3 diodes on the right
the three things on the right that look like diodes with an extra line coming out are SCRs, they block current until triggered by the voltage sensor IC. once triggered they shunt (short) the coil attached to it to ground until the rotation of the magnets around the stator take that coil below ground, which turns the SCR off.
block the voltage going that way, we could assume it goes to the 3 diodes on the lower left.

the diodes on the left are what sends the voltage/current to the bike.
when the R/R is not shunting the voltage comes from the highest voltage coil, goes out one of the upper left diodes, goes through the loads and battery, comes back to the R/R through the ground lead, goes through one of the lower left diodes back into the stator at the lowest voltage stator coil. When the R/R is not shunting, the voltage sensor IC and SCRs are effectively not there at all.

... when the R/R is shunting, one of the SCRs is shorting out the highest voltage coil, shutting down the above process and allowing no voltage/current out of the R/R (however, the upper diodes prevent the battery from sending voltage/current backwards through the R/R)
While the R/R is shunting, the battery supplies the loads on the bike. While the R/R is shunting, the Voltage sensor IC only provides a brief pulse to turn on the SCRs, and then is not in the circuit at all, when the R/R is shunting, the SCRs are effectively short circuits connecting their coils to ground.

Assuming the engine is running so the stator is sending A/C voltage to the diodes on the right, when they are activated the circuit is complete and the stator is providing power. What is not clear in this diagram is how the diodes on the right are switched on to complete the circuit. Nor is it clear how the voltage is shunted back to the stator when needed.
Does this make sense? I readily admit to being a DC guy myself, spending the majority of my time on bike and car circuits (post-charging system).

 

[Redman]

My comments in red to make it easier to put them inline

Thanks.
Pretty much consitent with my understanding (or quessing if didnt reallyh know).

Yep, I understand that the diode test is ment for checking diodes. But I was thinking it could be used on the sence line just to see that it wasnt completly shorted or compeltly open. But maybe not. And maybe one modle different circuitry that others.

.

 

[Redman]

Does that mean that you just have to fix the wire, and not replace the stator?...
...

Nope.

Crispy Critter.

Again the no load test was 40v and 40 v and about nothing. Ohm check was 0.9, 0.9 and 0.9 but was 1.9ohm to ground.

Especailly the poles at about 9oclock look burnt.
And the turns at about 11oclock poles look kinda loose.

That is/was a Ricks from about 4 years ago.
hum...

.

 

[BassCliff]

Wow Dave!

I'd say that stator is a little over-done.

You'll have it back together in no time.


All the best to you and yours,

Cliff

 

[Guest]

Time to consider a Compufire.

 

[Redman]

Time to consider a Compufire.

Tell me more.

Dave.

 

[posplayr]

Time to consider a Compufire.

If you recall my brand new electrosprort stator was browning after a 250 mile ride using a FET R/R. After installing the Compufire, and about 3K miles later I pulled the stator again and there were no additional signs of heating.


Red look in the link below:




NEWS FLASH READ ABOUT THE NEW COMPU-FIRE 3 PHASE SERIES R/R TO SOLVE YOUR GS CHARGING Woes
COMPU FIRE THREAD

 

[Guest]

My stock stator was as black as yours, but it had not started to destroy the varnish insulation on the windings yet or show any signs of overheating the stator wires except at the connectors. It has been perfectly happy running some heated gear last winter, and the low beam that would have burnt out long ago is still happy. I have no measurable evidence, but everything seems to work better since I installed the Compufire 55402 and Moto Batt AGM battery. I'm itching to put in one of the ElectroSport stators to see if it will support some additional heated gear, but that can wait. It's the best $180.00 I have invested in this bike so far.

 

[Redman]

If you recall my brand new electrosprort stator was browning after a 250 mile ride using a FET R/R. After installing the Compufire, and about 3K miles later I pulled the stator again and there were no additional signs of heating....
...

THat is a glowing recomendation... or in this situation a not glowing recomendation, which is good. Thanks.

.....
............ but everything seems to work better since I installed the Compufire 55402 and Moto Batt AGM battery. .........

THanks.



I am familiar with the discussions about the stock R/R (and "Honda" R/R) being the shunt type of regulator where esentailly the stator is putting out full current all the time and the R/R esentailly "wasting" any excess. So no need to rehash that all here.

With the look of the stator, I certainly suspect a problem/failure with the R/R. I have checked my R/R (Duaneage "Honda" R/R kit) everywhich way with the diode check feature of meter per the Stator Papers, and all checks okay.
BUt perhaps the stator damage is from the regular service the shunt type R/R inflicts upon the the stator.

I will look into the Compufire.

Thanks Guys,
Dave

 

[Guest]

I don't think you will regret it if you do. Personally I think this is the answer to GS electrical problems, but only time will tell, its relatively new to everyone.

 

[posplayr]

THat is a glowing recomendation... or in this situation a not glowing recomendation, which is good. Thanks.






THanks.



I am familiar with the discussions about the stock R/R (and "Honda" R/R) being the shunt type of regulator where esentailly the stator is putting out full current all the time and the R/R esentailly "wasting" any excess. So no need to rehash that all here.

With the look of the stator, I certainly suspect a problem/failure with the R/R. I have checked my R/R (Duaneage "Honda" R/R kit) everywhich way with the diode check feature of meter per the Stator Papers, and all checks okay.
BUt perhaps the stator damage is from the regular service the shunt type R/R inflicts upon the the stator.

I will look into the Compufire.

Thanks Guys,
Dave

Do we have the first confirmed Honda R/R stator burn-up????

 

[Redman]

compufire, Oregon

compufire, Oregon

To review:
It is a Ricks stator and Shindnedwhatever R/R (sometimes called "Honda") both installed in 2008, I would think at same time but do not specifically recall.

Stator tested on no load at 40v , 40v and about nothing (not 70-70-70). Ohm check okay from lead to lead, but instead of being open to ground was just under 2 ohms.
R/R test good on all diode checks using the diode test of digital meter.

I will say that the "Honda" R/R (Shindending....) has worked well, it has the sense lead so controlls battery voltage better. And it seems to want to controll at a higher voltage like 14 point something, which is more appropiate for modern sealed batterys (that is a subject that I dont think has been mentioned before).
But, overall, is still a shunt type of regulator (same as stock or most others) that runs stator at full load all the time, so in that respect is still same as stock. And all that has been discussed in detail, so no need to review all that.

By the way, I still thank Duanage for his fine service to the GS community. So I'm not at all making any negitive statments about his service or anything. (and dont care to hear any negitive comments).

Have looked at Compufire. Seems to be big honker units to impress Harley guys, at about $190. Which compared to being dead on the road and a the cost of new stator every 2 - 3 years, I suppose is not bad.

HAve also found Oregon units that I am looking at. Seems to be maybe same mounting size as stock (not sure) and about $100. Will be looking more.

.

 

[posplayr]

To review:
It is a Ricks stator and Shindnedwhatever R/R (sometimes called "Honda") both installed in 2008, I would think at same time but do not specifically recall.

Stator tested on no load at 40v , 40v and about nothing (not 70-70-70). Ohm check okay from lead to lead, but instead of being open to ground was just under 2 ohms.
R/R test good on all diode checks using the diode test of digital meter.

I will say that the "Honda" R/R (Shindending....) has worked well, it has the sense lead so controlls battery voltage better. And it seems to want to controll at a higher voltage like 14 point something, which is more appropiate for modern sealed batterys (that is a subject that I dont think has been mentioned before).
But, overall, is still a shunt type of regulator (same as stock or most others) that runs stator at full load all the time, so in that respect is still same as stock. And all that has been discussed in detail, so no need to review all that.

By the way, I still thank Duanage for his fine service to the GS community. So I'm not at all making any negitive statments about his service or anything. (and dont care to hear any negitive comments).

Have looked at Compufire. Seems to be big honker units to impress Harley guys, at about $190. Which compared to being dead on the road and a the cost of new stator every 2 - 3 years, I suppose is not bad.

HAve also found Oregon units that I am looking at. Seems to be maybe same mounting size as stock (not sure) and about $100. Will be looking more.

.

those are not SERIES; I tested one

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=173731&highlight=cheap+series+r%2Fr

 

[Redman]

those are not SERIES; I tested one

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=173731&highlight=cheap+series+r%2Fr

Pos,

Thanks for pointing out your previous investigation.
THe report (PDF) looks like it should detect what needs to be tested. Although I will want to study in more detail later (only had a minute or so). I will need to better determine what the yellow and the blue and the red traces represent.

Dave


>>later note
1 yell 20 volts
2 blue 20 amps
3 red 200 watts