What Brightness LED's for Guages?

[Guest]

So, next up I'm moving onto the idiot lights and gauge backlights:



Sorry for the blurry pic's, but you can still make out that it's a completely different fitting to what Matchless has in his GS1000:



It's a push-in interference fit, so how to make that work? Soldering is no good as I would melt the rubber housing and I don't think the soldering iron tip would get down far enough anyway.

So... cable tie to the rescue!

Once again, sorry for the blurry pic but I just can't seem to get the camera to focus right up close, I'm really quite camera challenged:



I've trimmed and soldered the 470 ohm resistor to the cathode leg of the LED.

I got a cut off from a cable tie I used to tie the harness to the frame with and chopped a small length off as it appeared to be about the same width as the bulb where it has the interference fit to the socket.

I then wrapped the LED's anode lead and the resistor's lead around the bit of cable tie and there we have it, an interference fit LED.

I'm not 100% convinced it'll be sturdy enough yet, and I think I'll make a slight modification by putting two grooves on the bottom of the cable tie piece for the leads to sit in to prevent them vibrating together and shorting out.

I have also yet to put some heat shrink over the LED/resistor joint too.

So on to testing time.

Here's the neutral light with the standard bulb:



Indicator light with the LED is on the left, bulb on the right:



Ignoring the poor camera work that's resulted in a different colour tinge, the sinlge LED is actually a little brighter than the bulb, which is excellent.

The only catch with the indicator is that I'm going to need two LED's in there, one in reverse polarity.

The reason for that is the 450 has a two connector indicator relay, so it seems that to make the indicator light flash, it reverses the polarity of the bulb, which of course won't work real well with a LED setup.

And onto testing for the backlights.

Left is the standard bulb, center is off, and right is one LED:



It's a bit hard to tell, but due to the backlight relying on the spread of light from the bulb, it's not going to go real well with just one LED.

The LED that's in there is canted slightly to the right, and you can definitely see the right side of the gauge is illuminated whereas the left seems not to be.

So, the answer should be as simple as two LED's, one canted left and the other canted right.

I've cut the rest of the cable tie bits for the other bulb replacements, so I just need to solder up the LED's and resistors and bend them around the cable tie bits.

I also still need to get a two LED reverse polarity one organised for the indicator one and two dual LED ones for the backlights.

All in all I'm definitely happy with the progress so far.

 

[Matchless]

Excellent job Pete! Thanks for the tip for using a bit of cable tie! I have soldered those in the past and never thought of doing it that way.
You could even add more LED's to the gauges by drilling some strategic 5mm holes and just pushing an led into it or even gang up 3 LED's on the present one.

 

[Guest]

2 things i hope you don't run into like I did


1. With LED's in the gauges means they fog up and do not unfog because there is no heat in there anymore.

2 The gear position indicator will intermittently stop working on certain gears because of oil on the position selector and the fact that the LED's don't take enough current to break through it and make a good connection.

Great job on the mod



Oh, one more thing, Instead of one resistor per LED you could use 1 resistor on the input of the gear position indicator and solder the LED's flush.

 

[cal_look_zero]

Nice to see someone jumping feet first into a project like this. I'm inspired to dive into my gauges tomorrow and see if I can help anyone out/get some nifty ideas for what I'll soon be doing.

Would anyone be interested in a write up on how to do it once I get in there and figure it out?

(I'm a total LED nerd and have done the gauges in everything from my 06 600RR to my 73 F100 along with about a bazillion other lighting projects)

 

[Guest]

Excellent job Pete! Thanks for the tip for using a bit of cable tie! I have soldered those in the past and never thought of doing it that way.
You could even add more LED's to the gauges by drilling some strategic 5mm holes and just pushing an led into it or even gang up 3 LED's on the present one.

Thanks Andre! This is the third non-tie use I've found for cable ties.

First was the common one everyone knows which is for valve adjustments, then I found it the perfect size spacer to lock the GSXR left control to my 'bars without swivelling around, and now as a base for the LED bulb replacement.

Very true on the extra holes comment, but I think left and right will be enough, at least I hope so.

2 things i hope you don't run into like I did

1. With LED's in the gauges means they fog up and do not unfog because there is no heat in there anymore.

2 The gear position indicator will intermittently stop working on certain gears because of oil on the position selector and the fact that the LED's don't take enough current to break through it and make a good connection.

Great job on the mod

Oh, one more thing, Instead of one resistor per LED you could use 1 resistor on the input of the gear position indicator and solder the LED's flush.

I haven't ever had fogging in the gauges before, but that could be a climate thing too, you guys in Canada get far colder in summer than we ever do in winter I would imagine, so hopefully that'll be no issue.

I've just rebuit the engine, so hopefully the fresh new O rings and seals around the place will prevent that from happening

Thanks for the compliment and bringing those up too, could definitely help if my gear position indicator does weird things...

As to the single resistor tip, yep, did that, and my single resistor is inline with the power feed to the LED's.

Nice to see someone jumping feet first into a project like this. I'm inspired to dive into my gauges tomorrow and see if I can help anyone out/get some nifty ideas for what I'll soon be doing.

Would anyone be interested in a write up on how to do it once I get in there and figure it out?

(I'm a total LED nerd and have done the gauges in everything from my 06 600RR to my 73 F100 along with about a bazillion other lighting projects)

Glad to see my work inspiring someone Not every day you see that happen...

I think you'll find everyone, or at least most on here, will be interested in any writeups like that.

If nothing else, it'll give you a sense of achievement

Not sure if I'd class myself as a complete LED nerd, but I definitely have tendencies in that direction...

 

[Guest]

Spent a couple of hours tonight finishing up the idiot light replacements, so all I have left is the gauge backlights, and I'm a little unsure of how to sort those out as the LED's aren't playing nice for them.

Anyways, back to the beginning... got all the LED's prepared with resistors and heatshrink:



Then I went to fit my first one into the oil light socket, but found once I crimped the leads properly around the cable tie, it was too loose a fit and just wobbled around with no connection.

So, dug around and found a thicker cable tie and that's it on the right:



That one made it a very firm fit so it ain't goin' nowhere and has good connections.

I did up the dual polarity one for the indicator light, but I couldn't get a pic that wasn't blurry or crappy, so nothing to show how that was done so I'll attempt to describe it.

I took the two prepared LED's for it and soldered the resistor lead from one onto the anode LED lead of the other and did that for both, but I ensured that the majority of the length of the anode lead of each LED was untouched so I could still wind it around the piece of cable tie.

I then folded them up so that they're side by side and wound the anode LED leads around the cable tie piece.

Sorry if that's a crap description, but the best I can do considering I couldn't get a good enough pic to show it.

Anyway, here's how they look.

Oil light:



Neutral:



High beam:



Indicators:



So, for the gauge backlights I did the same as above for the dual polarity indicator light, except I just soldered the anode leads together seeing as they're the same polarity.

I only did the speedo light, the tacho light is still a bulb for comparison.

Backlights off:



Backlights on, both LED's just canted left/right to distribute the light:



The bottom of the speedo is basically still dark and not illuminated at all.

So I angled them down a bit as well as canted left/right:



Actually made it a bit worse as there's now a blind spot at about the 100kph mark and it still really didn't illuminate any further down the gauge.

So I'll need to think some more on the gauge backlights, although I'm tempted to just go back to the bulbs and be done with it as I'm not real keen on the idea of drilling extra holes etc.

Anyone else have any bright ideas? (Pun fully intended... haha)

 

[cal_look_zero]

So I'll need to think some more on the gauge backlights, although I'm tempted to just go back to the bulbs and be done with it as I'm not real keen on the idea of drilling extra holes etc.

Anyone else have any bright ideas? (Pun fully intended... haha)

Extra holes is about the only way. I noticed it last night when I wired my test rig up. I'm going to use push in holders for the LEDs and run 5 LEDs per round gauge at 72* spacing (Probably 6@60* for the tach so I can have the fuel gauge well lit). Assuming that's not too bright of course. I may run less lights or a larger resistor to dumb it down. I have a cool idear for the idiot lights too, gotta go buy a little chunk of circuit board to test it though. The idea is to preserve the rubber boots and maintain a good seal on the gauge cluster.

For me, preserving the natural look and parts on the bike is of minimal concern, so if I have to cut/drill/fab anything, I get a little excited. I know, I'm sick.

 

[Guest]

That's what I was afraid of...

I'm generally trying to keep things in a state where they can be returned to original if possible.

If yours are like mine, there's a metal tab above where the bulb holder slots in, which I believe is there to avoid a bright spot with the bulb and make the illumination come from reflected light only.

There should be something more I can do, I'll just have to mull it over some more, or drill holes...

 

[mforbes]

I did all LED's. They are bright. May go back to a standard bulb on the High Beam. That blue light is pretty bright. Looks good at night. Plus a little bit of power is saved.

 

[cal_look_zero]

I just picked up 10 push in LED holders for about $3 at radio shack. I'm about 1/2way through about 17 different things at once, so I may be a little slow on doing the gauges/write up. Maybe not. We'll see how I feel after ganking my calipers apart, my forks apart, taping up my wire harness, and cleaning my shop... Yay weekends.

 

[Guest]

Cool, sounds like a plan.

Getting weekend time is good, very difficult for me to get it these days and most of my stuff is late on weeknights...

 

[Guest]

Wandered into the garage tonight and the answer to the speedo/tacho backlight issue was staring me straight in the face:



Both of them have those two holes at the bottom and as it turns out they're probably 4.9mm diameter, so a quick spin with a 5mm drill bit had them the perfect size for the LED's.

So, light on with just the two LED's in the bulb socket:



Definitely no illumination at the bottom there, so held a LED against one of the holes:



That will do the trick nicely!

So, as much as I didn't want to, I had to touch the original wiring a little...

Chopped the socket off so i could splice in some lead for the other two LED's I now need:



And all soldered up and heatshrinked ready to roll. Those LED's are a perfect fit in there:



And there we have it!



I realise the illumination isn't perfect, but there is light all the way around and it's only necessary at night where it'll be much easier to see anyway.

So, that's one half done, need to do the tacho and then the gauges can go back together... awesome!

 

[Guest]

One more thing i just remembered. With the led's i dont notice if my charging system is low or not. Whereas before led's if i wasnt getting a good charge the lights would be noticeably dimmer.
keep an eye out for that

 

[Guest]

One more thing i just remembered. With the led's i dont notice if my charging system is low or not. Whereas before led's if i wasnt getting a good charge the lights would be noticibly dimmer. The
keep an eye out for that

That's cool, I have a voltage meter in the works to solve that problem

 

[Matchless]

Pete,
That looks very good! Next time I take my gauges off, guess what I am going to do!

I think you may want to drill two new holes as those you used are for dissipating any dampness or water. You may find the gauges fogging up and thus not drying out if it ever happens.

 

[Guest]

Pete,
That looks very good! Next time I take my gauges off, guess what I am going to do!

I think you may want to drill two new holes as those you used are for dissipating any dampness or water. You may find the gauges fogging up and thus not drying out if it ever happens.

Cheers Andre! I'm pretty happy with it.

Guess I'm drilling holes after all

That thought did cross my mind but I thought surely not... oh well, won't be hard to pop another pair in just to be sure.

 

[Guest]

That's cool, I have a voltage meter in the works to solve that problem

Me too, my bike doesn't have the fuel gauge so I'm installing a voltmeter where it would be.

thing is,,, Analog or digital

 

[Guest]

Good plan! I don't have a fuel gauge, so instead I'm making up a LED bar graph meter that Bakalorz put up in the thread below:

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=163546

I'm not a fan of digital readouts on bikes myself (personal preference), and I generally prefer needles moving or lights going up and down, so my suggestion would of course be analog if it's not too small.

 

[Guest]

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=163546

Looks interesting,, I'm thinking of using an actual gas gauge for mine.

Check this out.

I took my cluster apart to replace an annoying burnt out 1st gear led

thought you might like the pics

 

[Guest]

Nice work! Yep, I like the pic's, that's a neat and tidy job you did on those LED's!

Do you know what mcd rating they have?

I got the extra drain holes drilled, a little smaller than the originals but I can't see that making much difference:



I then finished up by doing the tacho LED's, and seeing as I wanted it done tonight and it was exactly the same as the speedo, I didn't bother with any pic's there.

Glad I didn't try to get pic's in the end because I finished it off, and reassembled:



Only to have the camera start turning itself off with flat batteries again

I tested everything and it all looked pretty good to me, so once I have some fresh batteries I'll take some of the finished product.

I need to flip my headlight ears so I'll do that before mounting the gauges again then I should be able to give it all a dry run in place on the bike and be all done hopefully.