What triggers will work with a MSD MC2

[RacingJake]

I'm using a MSD MC2 box with Suzuki's ignition pickups and that little electronic module bolted next to the battery. I would like to use something else. The timing retards as the rpm gets higher and I think i'm losing a few HP.

Thanks
Jake

 

[rosco15]

I'm using a Dyna S.

 

[lecroy]

What setup do you have that retards as the RPM increases?

I have an old MC-1 that was updated by MSD to an MC-2. I used it with an old Dyna S. But the advance is not part of the rotor or pickup. Why not go to a fixed advancer an get an electric one?

 

[RacingJake]

Its just in the oem ignition, if you aim a timing light at the marks it works great from idle to 5K and as you get to max rpm the marks is retarded a few degrees. I like to keep the advance mech do to the high compression and the ease of starting.

 

[lecroy]

Its just in the oem ignition, if you aim a timing light at the marks it works great from idle to 5K and as you get to max rpm the marks is retarded a few degrees. I like to keep the advance mech do to the high compression and the ease of starting.

I guess I never checked a stock ignition. It's an interesting find. Wonder why it would work like this? Maybe trying to save the engine? What are you calling "max rpm"? Do you see the same effect with the MSD ignition? Anyway, the advance curve would be all electronic. Dump the mechanical advance. They have a problem coming apart anyway. Not a problem to start. Just done in a different way and many advantages. You can set your own curves, you can use them in place of a t-stop to chop, you can use them in conjuction with clutch to better control the launch, etc.

 

[gsbill]

R Jake,

Ya probably know this already, but why not go to a Dyna 2000 or something better if you want to keep racing that bike..A programable ignition is the ticket...just set static timing and the box does the rest per your settings.

 

[gsbill]

Don Plesser can help with your MSD isuues

http://www.prfactorystore.com/Detail.bok?no=18

 

[gsbill]

Over at Dynatek ask for Scott Valentine

http://www.dynaonline.com/english/

Tell em Bill Fischbach sent you...He's a wealth of information in regards to Dyna ignitions and also compatability issues

 

[RacingJake]

Thanks guys
I guess i should go with a complete new system but I picked up this MC2 real cheap last year and it works great with the air shifter, tach and 2-step. I like the MC4 but it's still to high too, maybe for Xmas. I like MSD and Ford's too, just got to be different you know as you can tell from my pic's.

 

[RacingJake]

Its just in the oem ignition, if you aim a timing light at the marks it works great from idle to 5K and as you get to max rpm the marks is retarded a few degrees. I like to keep the advance mech do to the high compression and the ease of starting.

I guess I never checked a stock ignition. It's an interesting find. Wonder why it would work like this? Maybe trying to save the engine? What are you calling "max rpm"? Do you see the same effect with the MSD ignition? Anyway, the advance curve would be all electronic. Dump the mechanical advance. They have a problem coming apart anyway. Not a problem to start. Just done in a different way and many advantages. You can set your own curves, you can use them in place of a t-stop to chop, you can use them in conjuction with clutch to better control the launch, etc.

max for me is 9 to 10K and I use suzuki's oem ignition hooked up to the MC2 and it will retard with both of them. You make a great point there!!

 

[rosco15]

When I put a timing light on my bike I use a bypass plug on the msd or the timing mark jumps around like crazy.

 

[lecroy]

max for me is 9 to 10K and I use suzuki's oem ignition hooked up to the MC2 and it will retard with both of them. You make a great point there!!

Did you ever check the timing with just the stock ignition (no MSD installed) to see what the timing did? I wonder if the problem is the stock ignition, or the MSD. I almost think (don't laugh until you hear me out) that the timing is off even at the low speeds. So, for example let's say you idle at 1200 RPM crank speed. 1200/60 = 20 Revs/second. 1/20 = 0.05 seconds to make one rev. 0.05 / 360 = 0.000138889 seconds/crank degree. This is a long time.

But at 10000 RPM you are now at 166 Revs/sec. = 0.006 sec. / rev = 0.000016667 seconds/crank degree. You said that the amount of retard was a few degrees. So, if its 3 degrees, we are talking about 0.00005 seconds of lag in the electronics. I could believe this is your problem. If this lag is always there, you would never see it at idle. 0.00005 / 0.000138889 = 0.3 degrees of retard.

If you had a scope you could measure this. Now days you could pick up a used 100MHz scope on eBay for a few dollars that would be over kill for any kind of work like this. May be a great investment for you. If this is what's going on, I would just compensate for the lag in the electronics by advancing it the few degrees your seeing at the higher RPMs. It should still start without any problems.

One good thing about the Dyna and a few other ignitions that use optics or hall sensors in place of the inductive pickups is that they have a more stable delay and are easier to compensate for.



I would just keep your setup until Christmas when you get your new ignition. Just a thought.

Wanted to go to the local track again with the bone stock GSXR to see if I could beat your times but we have been getting a lot of rain. This bike was 150HP compared to 118 on the old GS. Should help out a bit. May at least beat a few of the HDs with it. Sounds like the tire is working out for you. What's it like riding around the pit area? Does it still steer like a street bike or is it more like a 3 wheeler now?

Good luck with what ever you end up with.

 

[RacingJake]

Yeap Lecroy you are right again, i just advanced my timing to solve the oem retard. As for the slick it's great, no bars mounted yet but i do get some strange looks in the pits. One pro stocker just pointed and shook his head when I pulled into the staging lanes. To bad he didn't know I was in the finals. As for turning I just use alot of counter steer and lean alot to turn. I almost think the bike will stand up by it's self. I relate it to throwing a brick, they just want go straight.

let me know if you bet me, best to date are with no bars,
ET 6.83 (this was done last week, looking for high 70's with good air)
60 Ft 1.67
330Ft 4.49
MPH 103.88

 

[RacingJake]

max for me is 9 to 10K and I use suzuki's oem ignition hooked up to the MC2 and it will retard with both of them. You make a great point there!!

Did you ever check the timing with just the stock ignition (no MSD installed) to see what the timing did? I wonder if the problem is the stock ignition, or the MSD. I almost think (don't laugh until you hear me out) that the timing is off even at the low speeds. So, for example let's say you idle at 1200 RPM crank speed. 1200/60 = 20 Revs/second. 1/20 = 0.05 seconds to make one rev. 0.05 / 360 = 0.000138889 seconds/crank degree. This is a long time.

But at 10000 RPM you are now at 166 Revs/sec. = 0.006 sec. / rev = 0.000016667 seconds/crank degree. You said that the amount of retard was a few degrees. So, if its 3 degrees, we are talking about 0.00005 seconds of lag in the electronics. I could believe this is your problem. If this lag is always there, you would never see it at idle. 0.00005 / 0.000138889 = 0.3 degrees of retard.

If you had a scope you could measure this. Now days you could pick up a used 100MHz scope on eBay for a few dollars that would be over kill for any kind of work like this. May be a great investment for you. If this is what's going on, I would just compensate for the lag in the electronics by advancing it the few degrees your seeing at the higher RPMs. It should still start without any problems.

One good thing about the Dyna and a few other ignitions that use optics or hall sensors in place of the inductive pickups is that they have a more stable delay and are easier to compensate for.

Lecroy, you must of been born in a RadioShack :lol: All I know is if i put my finger in a light bulb socket it's going to hurt.

But it does make sence, thanks

 

[lecroy]

That 6.83 will be tough to beat with my old street bikes, but I think the GSX may have a shot at it. I will need to make sure I do a BIG dump that day to lighten the load.

Why would someone bring a prostock bike to a 1/8 mile track? Are they just there to run tests or practice? I assume your talking about people who run the pro circuits? We have one track near here where you could run a bike like this.

Learning a little electronics, or at least a few basic tools like a scope may really pay off for you when you set up your bikes.

Looked at your new bars. Looks good.

 

[RacingJake]

I think those guys just come out to show off and they really don't know how hard it is to go round after round in bracket racing. These guys are heads up racers and they need that last 660 to make up any mistakes.

PS I'm down to 6.61 8O the funny thing is it does'nt feel fast.

 

[lecroy]

I don't know anyone who runs in the prostock class but I would think many would come from the top gas ranks. Maybe they havn't figured out that .1 second difference :roll: You should step up to the plate. Do any of the NHRA events run near you? It may be fun and worth the few hours of driving if they do.

That 6.61 is great! All the passes I have made, I never felt like I was going all that fast. My bikes are always stable and feel real good going down the track. I am sure if you could try TF, and live to tell about it, it would seem "f"ing fast. 240+ in a 1/4 would be a bit too much for me!! I would want four wheels!