Whining noise when decelerating

[Carter Turk]

Know nothing about G bikes, but 1100E & 1150's have different helical tooth count, I think it's 87 for the 1100 & 89 for the 1150.

Aren't there 1000 G's too? Apparently some people have run the clutch baskets in opposite bikes, noting more whine from the 2 tooth discrepancy.

Wonder if the tooth count is the same on the G's.

 

[Brendan W]

The noise is coming from the clutch case area. I jacked up the bike so the rear wheel was off the ground and ran through the gears. It does it when I let off the throttle with the clutch still engaged. Took a video so I'll post it once I figure out how to upload it.
https://vimeo.com/457143728

Are you sure that the oil pump drive was engaged when the basket was tightened on to the shaft?
I would be tempted to revisit the clutch if for no other reason than it was the last major intervention.

 

[Guest]

I took it apart again. Everything seems fine except if I pull on the outer basket( not really sure the proper name of it) it has play in it. This part that I am calling the outer basket I never removed when putting new clutch plates in. https://vimeo.com/457331229

 

[Grimly]

I took it apart again. Everything seems fine except if I pull on the outer basket( not really sure the proper name of it) it has play in it. This part that I am calling the outer basket I never removed when putting new clutch plates in. https://vimeo.com/457331229

Better check the major nut inside the clutch assembly. They get loose for no good reason.
One of the suppliers of race parts on here has heavy duty nuts that you can tighten up a bit more than standard.
"Heavy Duty Hub Nut"
http://gszone.biz/clutches.html

 

[Guest]

Better check the major nut inside the clutch assembly. They get loose for no good reason.
One of the suppliers of race parts on here has heavy duty nuts that you can tighten up a bit more than standard.
"Heavy Duty Hub Nut"
http://gszone.biz/clutches.html

Yea I installed that when I replaced the clutch plates. Starting to think the noise is in the drive shaft again now though. I did another test ride and also jacked the rear tire off the ground and ran it again. Seems louder in the rear drive now....I'm lost.

 

[Guest]

Pulled the boot back to check the u joint after searching for similar issues on the forum and coming across "zooks syndrome". U joint doesn't have play in it however a bunch of grease or sludgy gear lube poured out of the boot.

 

[Redman]

Pulled the boot back to check the u joint after searching for similar issues on the forum and coming across "zooks syndrome". U joint doesn't have play in it . . . . .

Hey, sounds like you did some productive searching. Good.

Depending on which post you found, maybe you saw why I was asking the questions/clarifications I was asking about if any vibration.
When I had the threaded shaft (with nut that holds the u-joint onto the secondary drive) break off the back the secondary driven gear I noticed vibration on deceleration (felt thru foot pegs and frame) (that got more noticeable, then worse, over a couple months). You didnt seem to mention an obvious vibration ... so I did not suggest to you that we suspect this failure (if it were to be this failure, the Zooks Repair being a good repair option - if - if you are a machinist.)

But, but, let me ask an oter detail question, just to verify/clarify: When you say you checked and the u-joint had no play in it: Did you just check play in the rotation?, or did you also check for any play forward and back?
Any play back forward and back (toward front , toward rear) would indicate this failure, then we can talk about the Zook Repair or other options.

I can not add anything about the frothed up lube in the boot (I had a bit of thick black goo), other than there is a big o-ring between the secondary drive flange and the engine case to keep the gear lube in the secondary drive. (not suppose to be the gear lube in the ujoint area) And the frothy like that is usally attributed to water in the lube then it getting whipped up by the mechanical machinations in there (ujoint wizzing around in this case). Maybe is a crack in the boot or one of the clamps not entirley in place or something like that letting in water on occasion. Isn't suppose to be gear lube in there, but I dont think a little bit is a problem, and I suspect doesnt take much oil and a little water to make a lot of froth.

 

[Guest]

Hey, sounds like you did some productive searching. Good.

Depending on which post you found, maybe you saw why I was asking the questions/clarifications I was asking about if any vibration.
When I had the threaded shaft (with nut that holds the u-joint onto the secondary drive) break off the back the secondary driven gear I noticed vibration on deceleration (felt thru foot pegs and frame) (that got more noticeable, then worse, over a couple months). You didnt seem to mention an obvious vibration ... so I did not suggest to you that we suspect this failure (if it were to be this failure, the Zooks Repair being a good repair option - if - if you are a machinist.)

But, but, let me ask an oter detail question, just to verify/clarify: When you say you checked and the u-joint had no play in it: Did you just check play in the rotation?, or did you also check for any play forward and back?
Any play back forward and back (toward front , toward rear) would indicate this failure, then we can talk about the Zook Repair or other options.

I can not add anything about the frothed up lube in the boot (I had a bit of thick black goo), other than there is a big o-ring between the secondary drive flange and the engine case to keep the gear lube in the secondary drive. (not suppose to be the gear lube in the ujoint area) And the frothy like that is usally attributed to water in the lube then it getting whipped up by the mechanical machinations in there (ujoint wizzing around in this case). Maybe is a crack in the boot or one of the clamps not entirley in place or something like that letting in water on occasion. Isn't suppose to be gear lube in there, but I dont think a little bit is a problem, and I suspect doesnt take much oil and a little water to make a lot of froth.

There is vibration over 3500rpms or so but it has been like that for a while and on occasion it isn't all that noticeable. Always attributed it to carbs needing to be synced or valves adjusted and have yet to get to it.

When I checked for play in the ujoint i was looking for side to side movement. And to be honest I wasn't very thorough in checking. It was late at night and the whole thing had me frustrated and pretty down.

I've come to terms with not being able to ride for a while so I plan on making a little more room in the garage so I can start tearing into the rear and driveshaft and see what the issue is or what needs to be done. And since the bike will be down I'm going to carry on with the carb sync and valve adjustments while I'm at it. I'll be back with whatever I discover and a ton more questions I'm sure!
Thanks to you and everyone else for all the help and info so far!

 

[Guest]

So I finally got around to tearing down the bike. I believe I found the cause of the gear oil sludge in the boot. When I took the pumpkin off if I tip it forward gear oil leaks out of it. Assuming the oil seal is bad so I'll have to replace that. Also going to replace the 2 bearings in it. The front one comes right off. Still trying to figure out how to remove the rear one. Bigger issue I found I think is that the final bevel is possibly broken?? I'll add a picture of it. Based on the parts schematic it looks like there should be a short nub sticking out of it. Mine is almost flush but the end of it doesn't look machined and smooth. It's a rough surface as if a piece broke off it. See picture in my next post since I can apparently only add one pic per post.

 

[Guest]

Here's the possible broken end

 

[Guest]

Wondering if this piece in the center is the other end of what broke off....

 

[Big T]

Greg,

Follow this http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/images/how_to_post_pictures.pdf

And, if you haven't been here http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/

 

[Guest]

Hey, sounds like you did some productive searching. Good.

Depending on which post you found, maybe you saw why I was asking the questions/clarifications I was asking about if any vibration.
When I had the threaded shaft (with nut that holds the u-joint onto the secondary drive) break off the back the secondary driven gear I noticed vibration on deceleration (felt thru foot pegs and frame) (that got more noticeable, then worse, over a couple months). You didnt seem to mention an obvious vibration ... so I did not suggest to you that we suspect this failure (if it were to be this failure, the Zooks Repair being a good repair option - if - if you are a machinist.)

But, but, let me ask an oter detail question, just to verify/clarify: When you say you checked and the u-joint had no play in it: Did you just check play in the rotation?, or did you also check for any play forward and back?
Any play back forward and back (toward front , toward rear) would indicate this failure, then we can talk about the Zook Repair or other options.

I can not add anything about the frothed up lube in the boot (I had a bit of thick black goo), other than there is a big o-ring between the secondary drive flange and the engine case to keep the gear lube in the secondary drive. (not suppose to be the gear lube in the ujoint area) And the frothy like that is usally attributed to water in the lube then it getting whipped up by the mechanical machinations in there (ujoint wizzing around in this case). Maybe is a crack in the boot or one of the clamps not entirley in place or something like that letting in water on occasion. Isn't suppose to be gear lube in there, but I dont think a little bit is a problem, and I suspect doesnt take much oil and a little water to make a lot of froth.

So it seems the threads on the end of the bevel gear did shear off

 

[Gorminrider]

aha. I was wondering. "Whining" catches my eye. Looks like zooks syndrome. Been there, done that. Try a search of 'whining" in this "4 Cylinder Engine/Drivetrain/Clutch" section but mainly,
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/storagecliff/images/bevel_gear_shaft_repair_zooks.pdf

 

[Guest]

aha. I was wondering. "Whining" catches my eye. Looks like zooks syndrome. Been there, done that. Try a search of 'whining" in this "4 Cylinder Engine/Drivetrain/Clutch" section but mainly,
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/storagecliff/images/bevel_gear_shaft_repair_zooks.pdf

Thanks. I'll be bringing it to work with me tomorrow to start repairing it. Still trying to figure out how to get the stud that's broken and then it out of that spring loaded coupler though.

 

[Grimly]

Just buy a replacement low-mileage pumpkin for 30 bucks.

 

[Guest]

Just buy a replacement low-mileage pumpkin for 30 bucks.

I did that too. I don't know if you'd call 80k low mileage though. But it was the only one of a handful I found that listed the mileage and didn't look beat to hell.

 

[Redman]

So it seems the threads on the end of the bevel gear did shear off

Your picture is the final drive end (rear wheel),
(not the secondary drive at back end of engine), right?

if is at the final
drive, is not what I was mentioning.

 

[Guest]

Your picture is the final drive end (rear wheel),
(not the secondary drive at back end of engine), right?

if is at the final
drive, is not what I was mentioning.

Yes it is of the final drive end. The Zook syndrome/repair applies to this.

 

[Grimly]

I did that too. I don't know if you'd call 80k low mileage though. But it was the only one of a handful I found that listed the mileage and didn't look beat to hell.

Depends how they've been treated, of course, but 80k is nothing to these.
300K on mine, but I bought a spare, just in case. I'll have to fit new seals on it, but mechanically it's fine.