WTF??? Pilot jet change causes major issue..

[Kenton]

WTF??? Pilot jet change causes major issue...

WTF??? Pilot jet change causes major issue...

I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, but I've seen it going on over at the Triumph Forum. Has anyone ever had any luck with pod filters mounted to CV carbs? I thought CV carbs needed a large volume air box full of "still air" in order to work on a street engine. I don't know, never tried pod filters on CV carbs myself. I just met a guy in town with a GS1000 cafe jobbie that threw up his hands and sold the bike, same scenario. It wouldn't run right. Maybe there were other things at play besides pod filters&CV carbs...

 

[almarconi]

Has anyone ever had any luck with pod filters mounted to CV carbs?

There are alot of bikes running pod filters with CV carbs. Thats why they make jet kits. It can be a frustrating process to get the carbs tuned..but it is do able.

 

[49er]

There are alot of bikes running pod filters with CV carbs. Thats why they make jet kits. It can be a frustrating process to get the carbs tuned..but it is do able.

I haven't seen any threads where a member has been completely satisfied with his/her tuning results, after fitting up pods to CV carbs. Some damage their engines, while others accept their fate, never to feedback what really became of their famous tuning adventures.
Many others bang their heads against the proverbial brick wall for months, trying desperately to get rid of that last "little stumble", be it in the idle circuit or the midrange. However, the main jet seldom causes any lasting frustrations.

Pods do work best with slide carbs, which is great, considering that most of our vintage race applications rely on them. If you must to use pods on the street, fit some slides and save the agro.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Having broken down and installed a dynojet kit I have the bike as good as its gonna get. Mind you that's pretty fing good. There are no definate flat spots thru the rev range and the bike is off like a rocket in any gear tho 5th is the slowest to respond from below 4k. Its not a studder just rolling on doesn't produce the seat of the pants punch that you get out of the lower gears untill you're above 6K. In that gear at above 6K you're fast approaching the ton and the staties around here have been thick so I haven't been much above that mark in the last few days. At any rate the point I'm at now is deciding which of two needle positions I prefer. In the third notch from the bottom the bike is truely happy albeit not as lively as with the clip int the 4th notch from the bottom. However in the 4th notch the bike is a slight bit lean but very mean. If this bike weren't my baby and was just one I meant to thrash on the weekends I'd prolly leave it in 4 but since she's not only my most prized machine of all my GSs and a daily rider I prefer to keep her happy even if a slight and I do mean slight loss of instant blast off is lost. Having said this I will likely never attempt to fix pods to CV Carbs again and truth be told if I had an airbox for this bike it would be on it. I will also never attempt to hand jet a CV bike again if a jet kit is available for it. I've done it a few times with success to VM bikes but I've come to the conclusion that CVs and pods are like that newlywed couple that everyone thought was perfect for eachother untill they actually got married. Lol.

 

[trippivot]

Tripp, the needle valves are good, the floats are set at stock 22.4 and putting the 45 back in there eliminated the sloppy gas mess...

I am re reading thru this thread pods better for round slide carbs than CVs'
HA HA HA HA oh man you guys are entertaining!!

engine damage , frustration , flat spots in the rev range , changing a pilot jet and gas running out of the engine , a partial value for the float height , and the best one yet

the bike just doesn't pull 5 gear like 2nd or 3rd below 4K rpm --- why not just take off from a standing start in 5 gear HA HA HA HA

mechanical advantage and "seat of the pants" feel is different in every gear.


now for the kicker!!!
what are the weather conditions like when you are doing these stoichiometric ratio changes?? WHY is no body is recording the atmospheric conditions when these changes are being made???!!??

yes friends the:
1. humidity %
2.barometric pressure
3. temperature
4. density altitude

ALL effect the way your stage 3 jetting runs the engine.-and change DAILY!! so the tune up should change _ _ _ _ _ (daily)

one day the bike is great and the next it runs bad
you need to re tune the mixture screws and needle height settings every time the weather changes.

the pods and stg 3 is a modification full of compromises (get something - give something)

The air box is basicly a dynamic dampener for atmospheric changes to create a bigger "window" for common tuning.

tuning a set of carbs and NOT recording the atmosphere is really hurting your success of getting a machine to run right.

like pushing a rope up a set of stairs.... you can spend a lifetime trying

oh man I have only been tuning for 20 years and I still haven't heard them all...

 

[trippivot]

1 more hint from trippivot


exhaust gas temperature


it is a reading taken from a specific tool that reads the temperature from the ex-pipes

500~650 too lean

180~250 too rich

degrees F along with a weather station is needed for a smooth running stg 3 equipped motorcycle.



try tuning a helicopter !! everyday is a tuning session before the mission- flight. do it like you guys and meet ST.Peter in a quickness

 

[TheCafeKid]

Whatever tripp..we're not all masters like you bro. We also dont run at the track and have time to tune the bike every friggen day due to atmospheric conditions.


For what its worth for the rest of us "non perfects" out there, MY bike runs like a champ, wet, dry, day or night with the set up i have now. Is it perfect? Nope. But its not a race bike, not meant to be, its a daily rider that is tuned well enough to keep me entertained. Of course, i dont look for 60ft times, trap times, or any of that crap because that means ZILCH to me. So you go on with your bad self and your 20 years of experience, tune up those machines man! I'll be out riding...

 

[trippivot]

ok cafe kid, I see you spout bad information A LOT !!!!

at least I can explain WHY all these bikes are running off of the mark


change a pilot jet and a gassy mess appears WHAT A COMEDIAN !!!

go headon with your bad self!!!

another original HAHA

 

[TheCafeKid]

ok cafe kid, I see you spout bad information A LOT !!!!

at least I can explain WHY all these bikes are running off of the mark


change a pilot jet and a gassy mess appears WHAT A COMEDIAN !!!

go headon with your bad self!!!

another original HAHA

For starters, I never ONCE claimed to be a carb guru or master or anything of the like. Hence the reason for my questions here. Frankly, I understand that the bike will be subject to atmospheric conditions, its an unknown variable and MY POINT in this thread is that *MY* bike runs acceptably TO ME with the set up I have now. I dont care about all the technical specifics as to why or why not, because at this point it doesnt seem to effect the bike as much as it did BEFORE I installed the jet kit. I can point you to at least THREE people on this board who've just as much experience as you, if not more, running drag bikes, tuning performance machines who will plainly state that the pilot jets with the airation holes in them wont work with the carbs that DIDNT HAVE THEM. The 47.5 i have may or may NOT have been drilled out, I cannot tell by looking at them, but they simply didnt work on a bike that was running and idling just fine with the 45s in them, and when i put the 45s BACK in the bike it again ran and idled just fine. Still does. Any "bad" information i may "spout" is only what ive either learned from here, or thru my own trial and error. The bikes are running "off the mark" because pods and CVs are simply not a good match. Anyone here can tell you that. Its been said a billion times. Again, HAD I AN AIRBOX for the bike, it would be on it. But, I aquired the bike without said airbox, so I am making it run the best i can as it sits. And, I must say, whether you care to believe it or not, i could care less, it runs pretty damn good at this point. Perfect? Nope. I dont have the time nor the inclination nor the equipment or "skills" to make it run "perfect" Is it more powerfull than stock? Having ridden an 1100ED to compare it against that is stock, Id say most assuredly. My plugs are in good colour, my temps at the pipes are within guidelines, and the throttle response is smooth throughout the powerband. Works for me.

 

[hp1000s]

I'm gonna' sorta' jump into the middle-ground here:
Bought a brand new '82 Kaw GPz750(CV carbs) as a left-over in '84. Bought pods/Supertrapp 4-1with disks/Dynajet kit. Previously, I'd jetted numerous cars & boats with a variety of 4bbl carbs, but never a multi-carb motor. I followed the DJ kit instructions to the letter, and only had to raise the needle one increment...good-to-go with a great result. It CAN work fine, and it doesn't take 20 years of jetting experince to get a "suitable" (for most folks) result. With the seeming wealth of CV jetting problems around here, I'd guess it's more than likely due to lots of motors with issues outside of the actual carb setup: i.e. compression, valve adj., weak and/or ill-timed spark, leaky exh. gaskets, etc. The experience factor, is being able to recognize the difference.

 

[Billy Ricks]

I'm gonna' sorta' jump into the middle-ground here:
Bought a brand new '82 Kaw GPz750(CV carbs) as a left-over in '84. Bought pods/Supertrapp 4-1with disks/Dynajet kit. Previously, I'd jetted numerous cars & boats with a variety of 4bbl carbs, but never a multi-carb motor. I followed the DJ kit instructions to the letter, and only had to raise the needle one increment...good-to-go with a great result. It CAN work fine, and it doesn't take 20 years of jetting experince to get a "suitable" (for most folks) result. With the seeming wealth of CV jetting problems around here, I'd guess it's more than likely due to lots of motors with issues outside of the actual carb setup: i.e. compression, valve adj., weak and/or ill-timed spark, leaky exh. gaskets, etc. The experience factor, is being able to recognize the difference.

The trouble is people don't want to pop for a jet kit. They think it's just a matter of bumping up the mains and turning the idle mixture screws a little and you're good to go. The main thing you need in a jet kit is the needles. You can shim the stock needles but you can't do anything about the taper.

 

[almarconi]

TCK, I would not pay any attention to trippivot's remarks. He has given some wacked out responses before..my favorite is his recommendation to run 5w-30 (energy conserving) engine oil in the GS bikes.

Here is the quote

5W 30 is the best winter oil viscosity you'll find. (under 40 F)

if you are not running motorcycle specific oil you have metal to metal contact in the transmission any way. shear factor. ya know.

 

[jjmaag]

1 more hint from trippivot


exhaust gas temperature


it is a reading taken from a specific tool that reads the temperature from the ex-pipes

500~650 too lean

180~250 too rich

degrees F along with a weather station is needed for a smooth running stg 3 equipped motorcycle.



try tuning a helicopter !! everyday is a tuning session before the mission- flight. do it like you guys and meet ST.Peter in a quickness

So where exactly do you ride on the helicopter so that you can adjust for
1. humidity %
2.barometric pressure
3. temperature
4. density altitude
Oh yea, you tune for that before your mission because those variables won't change during your flight will they?

 

[tkent02]

Aren't most helicopters powered by turbines?

 

[49er]

TCK, you're at fault here.

If you had just bought an airbox off ebay, it would have been cheaper than the DJ kit, and we wouldn't have needed to endure Trippivot's
rantings.

 

[Guest]

TCK, you're at fault here.

If you had just bought an airbox off ebay, it would have been cheaper than the DJ kit, and we wouldn't have needed to endure Trippivot's
rantings.

It's all my fault Ian. :-$

 

[Guest]

Bag on trippivot if you want but go to the track and all the guys are checking the weather numbers.
That's why they get two runs before the money race.
And yes, you can tune CV carbs wth pods.

 

[49er]

Bag on trippivot if you want but go to the track and all the guys are checking the weather numbers.
That's why they get two runs before the money race.
And yes, you can tune CV carbs wth pods.

Bill, I might have known that you'd still be persuading other members to dabble with in the black art of "tuning with pods".

Sure you can sucessfully tune CV's with pods, it's just that most people aren't magicians. Billy R has hit it on the head. Many people wan't pay for DJ's research and buy a kit. Many of these people are lapse with regular maintenance too, which inflates their odds against success.

It's amazing how severe the weather variables have to be before you notice any decline in performance when using the stock airbox!! Quite boring really! Anybody got any pods for sale?

 

[trippivot]

guys, I just want to help - where I might be useful. typing probably carries a different interpretation for each reader. you don't need to move the needles every day. >> just doing your own tuning you should approach it like science class- got a spirial notebook? success is tougher than failure. buy the important parts new and understand what trouble some kinds of used parts create.


getting a happy medium "tune up" on your pods and not fouling plugs is the best thing you can expect. on mech slides

CV's starve in the middle it is true but changing the throttle input can really help that- knowing how to pull the vacuum up by slowing the rate of twist. remember - no acc pump. and after a light brown plug color shows you have a good "tune up" heaven is found.

make a log book and you might find 2 good settings for CVs' in a 4 season climate and 3 if you are running mechanical slides.

I have my street bike -CVs' pods- set where it runs super great in the early spring and late summer - fall. but it blubbers a little in the high heat and high humidity. fat is a little cooler in the summer time I live with it and play with the timing forward and back depending on in town or highway.

I have a couple scratches I made while using the timing light so just a screwdriver and slip it lazy or snappy line up the marks easy as pie.

I like this place and not here to make trouble.
ride hard or stay home and guys --loose the watches..

wild hogs. haha.

 

[Guest]

Bill, I might have known that you'd still be persuading other members to dabble with in the black art of "tuning with pods".

Sure you can sucessfully tune CV's with pods, it's just that most people aren't magicians. Billy R has hit it on the head. Many people wan't pay for DJ's research and buy a kit. Many of these people are lapse with regular maintenance too, which inflates their odds against success.

It's amazing how severe the weather variables have to be before you notice any decline in performance when using the stock airbox!! Quite boring really! Anybody got any pods for sale?

I didn't twist any arms. I just tried to help when called on. :-\\\