My 1982 GS 450 - journal thread

[bren]

well, it's pretty much done now. Yesterday was insanely productive. I stayed up late and knocked off the rest of the list, mostly electrical stuff. flasher relay replacement and sh775 mod. I even oiled the chain. it's pretty much down to just slapping on the seat and tank...

The flasher relay was easier to fix than i thought. I found a 2 blade relay at oreilly's that matched the existing harness which worked. I just zip tied it onto the rubber mounting thingy and that was that.

I velcroed the r/r to the right side of the airbox. I guess I'll figure out a different place for the tool bag. maybe I'll velcro it to the inside of the plastic. the bracket that was in there for the tool set had to go. I cut and soldered the bullet connectors off the old reg rec and spliced them to the new one. left enough wire hanging off of the old one that it could be set back to stock if someone ever wanted to.

i also removed the glass fuse and replaced it with a mini blade style one.

now I just need to finish getting it running right. It still seems a bit lean, it's slow to come down after a throttle blip. I'm hoping it comes down to pilot screw adjustment. Maybe the floats need to come up a hair more. I do have a carbtune and got the carbs in the ballpark. I'll definitely run some seafoam through the first few tanks.

[bren]

I'm still having running issues. it's hanging like it's lean and taking a long time to go back to idle.
-compression in both cyls is good, 155 (the one i re-shimmed) and 145
-I peeked at the advancer, it's free and the springs seem strong

here's the plugs though. these are the ones that came with the bike and they were both black when I got it. but now the electrode on the right hand cyl has gone white, and the left cyl still looks quite black. this is after running for maybe 15 mins total. these are ngk b8es.

i'm not sure how to determine if this is fuel related, or maybe electrical... I guess I need to get some fresh plugs and do a chop to see what's going on better? I need a hint on what to do next.

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[grcamna2]

Following along

[bren]

recheck for vacuum leaks with carb cleaner, none found.

It's colder today - One cyliner was visibly producing white smoke, or vapor - which I presume is probably unburnt fuel from a misfire (it wasn't doing it every hit). I can hear it periodically stumble/miss. It's in the left cylinder, which has the blackened spark plug. So that would make sense.

I also went to the parts store to pick up some more B8ES plugs. I found out, as probably most of you forum old-heads already know, that plug is discontinued. I'd have to get resistor plugs.

So - I'm gonna order a dyna S and do the ignition mod.

I was hoping to avoid it, as it's expensive on this bike (you have to get the coils) but it seems like a better deal anyway (as compared to tracking down new old stock, used, or knockoff replacements). I'm grateful for brick house builds on youtube for showing the process on a 450 in pretty good detail. I've heard that the dyna coils don't fit so great under the tank, I wish I could see pictures on how people have dealt with this.

Well I guess it's back to the waiting game, waiting on the mail man ........

[rphillips]

I wish I could help, or somebody more informed than me would, or could chime in with ideas. Personally, to me, your problems seem way more apt to be fuel than ign.... Hoping you the best.

[bren]

Yea I guess I'll find out. If it's still broken with a new ignition then at least I'll know. and it will have a new ignition ...

it wouldn't be the first time i've thrown parts at it in vain. My intake boots for instance were fine in the end. But at the same time they weren't looking hot either. So I don't feel bad for replacing them even though they didn't solve my issue.

The main reason I'm jumping to ignition is because my symptoms are absolutely identical to a bike that BHB showed on his channel, and the fix ended up being an ignition replacement.

[bren]

installing the dynatek

i finally got all the parts in the mail and got it put together. I don't know what was wrong with the old ignition. could have been bad plugs or caps for all i know, as easily as a bad ignitor. But when I found out that they don't even make the non resistor plugs anymore that the bike wants, i just went ahead pulled the trigger on the whole shebang. now I don't have to worry about if these 40 year old electronics are gonna go bad randomly. i've been wanting to do this anyway since i got the bike last year and found out about the dyna S mod.

I followed this rough guide from brick house builds, and I'm very thankful for it. it made it really easy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqCOEG7uHm0 There's a nice wiring diagram in that video, plus he showed how to cleanly delete the ignitor box without messing with the wiring harness. You just clip off the connector from the ignitor box, solder a few wires together on it to make a little loopback plug, and plug it back in. I also clipped the stock connector from the old signal generator and soldered it to the dyna plate leads, and did the same with the coil leads. it all went together pretty easy and clean.

there was a spacer I had to make to take up the slack in the advancer. it's an m14 bushing/washer with about 1/8" thickness. I found some m14 aluminum crush washers that did the trick. I had to waller out the holes a little with sandpaper to get it to fit on the shaft, then i sanded them flat and took them down until they were just the right thickness. they just so happen to be the same size washers that go in the oil drain plug so that's a plus - i have half a dozen left over.

i also had to bend the mounting brackets a bit for the coils to get them to fit under the tank without the plug wires rubbing too much. i bent those ears inwards maybe like 1/4 to 1/2 inch. it's not perfect but it should be good enough. if the wires ever rub through, i have the stuff to make some more. I need to make more anyway, I got 7mm plug wire and it's too skinny for the boots i have. So I need some thicker spark plug wire.

timing was straighforward once i figured out what the marks meant on the advancer. there's "T| |F R |" on there, the last tick mark is the full advance mark. you just set the crank to that mark, twist the advancer all the way, and line up the plate so the test light just comes on right at that point.

i've also heard you're supposed to cut a notch for that oil pressure sensor screw so it doesn't ground out on the plate. but it didn't seem to be touching. I decided to just put some tape on the back of the plate to insulate it just in case.

I got to crank it up today before work, and it ran tons better. at first, the idle was still revving up and hanging, but it was just badly out of sync. before, I guess because it wasn't firing right, no matter where I set it, it wouldn't sync up right. but this time, i turned the sync screw and the idle came right down and sounded nice and steady.

now the issue is that it's still running a little lean. it's still kinda slow to come down after a throttle blip. It pops in the the exhaust a little, especially revved up to about 2-4k. So I guess I need to pull the carbs back off and make sure they're still clean. And I don't remember if the needles are raised but if not, i'll do that. I've read about that hack where you put the washer underneath the needle to raise it.

Maybe I also need to double check float height and maybe try raising the fuel level a mm or so. and throw some seafoam in the gas just for good measure.

But now, apart from getting the carbs squared away, it's pretty much ready to ride. Just in time, the weather is starting to get nice down here in TX.

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[bren]

i took the carbs back apart tonight. i don't have the right snap ring pliers to get the needles out.

i realized that the needles are significantly different lengths. they are about 1/8" different or a little more. one of them is looser than the other. I think they were worked on and put back together wrong, at least one was. it wouldn't be the first carb part i've found put together wrong. the longer one seems more correct. i'll get the correct snap ring pliers tomorrow and figure it out.

[bren]

i've been thinking about that stupid jet needle all day. I'm starting to question everything. why it wouldn't sync up. why it revs so slow and why the revs come down slow. the fouled plugs. I don't even think it's running lean at this point, i don't think it ever was lean. when I think about it, there always has been a mist of fuel collecting in the intake boots every time i've taken the carbs off after running the bike. and the plugs were black.

I'm starting to accept the more probable truth: there never were air leaks. the ignition system was working fine. the plug was fouled on one side because the needle jet was open too far, and so it was running massively rich! and that was causing it to misfire! it wouldn't go into balance because it had two different jets! and they were wildly different. Now that I have the right pliers, I took the plungers apart and looked, nothing was missing, there's even a shim washer under each needle. It's just that whoever put them back together last just didn't put the snap ring all the way down into the groove.

I really should have noticed the height difference in the needles. I saw it when the carbs were apart last. I remember noticing it. But I didn't put 2 and 2 together. I didn't know enough at the time to realize it was a problem. i'm glad no one is trying to pay me to fix this bike... i think i've probably just thrown like 500 in parts at it, chasing my tail.

not that i regret having fresh intake boots and a brand new modern ignition system. but still... the realization! ouch .... x_x Then again, for me, this is as much about learning as it is about eventually riding. but the time lost and the frustration are what's killing me about it.

tomorrow morning i'll find out for sure, when i slam the carbs back on and start it up. if i put it back together and it runs perfect, i'm gonna be so happy and angry at the same time.

[GRich]

If I'm not mistaken, you have the carb issue figured out now, correct? I was just reading your troubleshooting thread.....

I know it's not standard procedure here, but the GS450 can use a R/R from a GS500. It bolts in the same spot and uses the same wiring connector. But if your are going with an SH775, do that!

I was reading about your tire issues earlier - the Shinko 705's are really nice (and inexpensive). But also..... too little too late. The good thing about the 450's is that their wheels are exchangable (if my memory is correct). So you could get a 16" rear or an 18" rear from another model.

[bren]

If I'm not mistaken, you have the carb issue figured out now, correct? I was just reading your troubleshooting thread.....

I know it's not standard procedure here, but the GS450 can use a R/R from a GS500. It bolts in the same spot and uses the same wiring connector. But if your are going with an SH775, do that!

I was reading about your tire issues earlier - the Shinko 705's are really nice (and inexpensive). But also..... too little too late. The good thing about the 450's is that their wheels are exchangable (if my memory is correct). So you could get a 16" rear or an 18" rear from another model.

yes! i finally figured out the carb issue! fortunately it was user error and nothing was actually broken!

good to know on the wheels. i might think about switching wheels at some point. i do worry that these old timey wheel sizes will go out of production. I was finally able to get a good front tire fitted. I realized that the first time i went tire shopping, it was already late in the spring so everyone was evidently just sold out of my fairly-rare tire size. a few months later, I did find that shinko.

yea I already did the sh775 mod. i found a used one on ebay for like 20 bucks. i haven't done the full test yet of the stator since the bike wasn't running. fingers crossed the stator is OK! this bike has been so clean thus far, i feel like there's a good chance it's just fine.

[bren]

today was the test ride, everything was working great. i'm a new rider so i didn't go more than about 25mph, back and forth up my street, but the engine is good, brakes, clutch, trans, everything's working really well.

only two problems left.

1. slight oil leak, seemingly from the chain tensioner gasket on the back of the head. I'll get around to it. maybe when i get the broken valve cover bolt fixed.
2. fork seal leak. I think I fixed this. I used a seal mate to clean the seal, and there was a medium ish sized scrape on the stantion tube. so I took some 2000 grit to it and buffed off the sharp edges and it seems to be holding now. i guess time will tell.
3. i'll throw in one bonus problem. the right muffler's in the process of rusting out. I'll let future me replace the exhaust someday. for now it isn't causing any issues.

[dgates1]

Nice looking bike! Hope you enjoy it.

[bren]

~500 mile update. everything's running just fine.

It's raining today, so instead of riding, I installed a different headlight bucket (emgo 66-64313D) so i can run automotive lamps instead of sealed beams - which they don't apparently even make my size of them anymore (some kind of honda special 6 1/4 bulb). It came with a halogen, and it does look a bit brighter than the incandescent that the bike had stock. I do want to try out some led bulbs since I have an sh775.

it didn't come with hardware, so i ordered some stainless, and i'm glad I got a 50 pack of washers because i needed them. I knew I would have to shim between the ears. But I took a wild guess on the length of bolt needed and ended up guessing about 10mm too long.

anyway, it still looks relatively stock. though it's a bit smaller. only a real GS nerd would notice.



tomorrow I'm getting a national cycle deflector windshield in the mail, so hopefully it won't rain and I can mess around with it. The broken windshield that my bike came with has an old school GSR sticker on it, I'm gonna try to transfer it from the old windshield to the new one.

Next I'm gonna get some fog lamps to go on the crash bars. I worry about visibility out there. Plus I'm planning to do some evening and night riding this summer to beat the heat (Texas).

I've also got a USB power supply / charging socket that I haven't installed yet.

I'm starting to get to the point where I probably need to add a fuse block of some kind; there's going to be like 37 ring terminals on the battery by the time i'm done (there's already the r/r, main harness, chassis ground, and trickle charger lead, and that stack of terminals is already hard enough to get screwed down). I found one called a thunderbox which looks pretty cool. I've got space to hang it where the ignitor box used to be.

[bren]

got the new windshield fitted up and was able to transfer over the old decal to the new windshield