My dabble in synthetic oil...

[pozzi]

Sorry to keep this crusty thread going, and going, and...

I've always been one of those "motor oil is motor oil" types, typically grabing what ever oil is on sale. My thinking is that as long as the oil meets the SAE spec then all is well.

I've recently started doing some more reading on the oil subject and it seems clear that not all oils are alike. Pure synthetic oils, like Amsoil & Golden Spectro, seem to be superior products but are priced accordingly. Cheaper mixed synthetics, like Rotella and Mobil 1, again seem superior to dino oil but are more expensive. So the question remains: where is the sweet spot with regard to the best cost vs. benift ratio?

Motor oils capture combustion by products and keep them in suspension in the oil. This would lead one to think that frequent oil changes are the way to go - leaning toward dino because it's cheaper. Motorcycle transmissions chew up long chain molocules in the oil though which would lean toward synthetic since they have more chemical stability.

I'm thinking that mid priced mixed synthetics are the best compromise since they are not killer expensive, so you can change it more often, yet protect the motor a little better than dino oils.

I'm a convert...for now.

it all depends on what you go with.
I used to use amsoil religiously in my civic commuter car (92 Civic sedan 1.5l) and when commuting 125miles each way for the eight months i did it, i got at best 54MPG (stock rating was 32mpg!).

I don't know if it had anything to do with the synthetics I ran in it, but it sure ran and shifted better than any other Honda i've owned (about 6-7 total, 2 with the same 1.5L engine). and i NEVER got anywhere close to that fuel acconomy.

Amsoil WAS expensive (we used to buy it at wholesale through the shop I worked at), but the shop we used to get it through was adamant that we only had to swap out to new oil filters for two changes and top off the oil, then on the third, change the fluid also like normal and he also said the oil changes could go to 5,000 miles vs. 3,000 for dino juice.
They also recommended a much thinner fluid level (0-20 vs the OE suggestion of 5-30).

i was super hessitant to do it, but he brought by the Amsoil rep when he came to town and he had a brochure that recommended these change intervals and he explained why it was okay. (too much to write and it was years ago, so I don't even know if i'd get it all right but everyone at the shop switched.)

with the every-third oil change, the Amsoil broke down to minimally more than dino-juice and less than all the rest of the synthetics out there.
I ran it like this for almost 4 years for over 80K miles without any problems.

I don't work near the place we used to get the Amsoil, so I haven't used it in my last two vehicles, but I have to say I was well pleased with it when I used it.

I won't use anything else when it comes to full synthetics.
as for now, i use Catrol Syntec blend for our cars and prolly something like Redline (just because of availability) in the GS.


[disclaimer] i do not suggest you only change the filter and only change your oil on every third oil change. speak to your local distributor of the product to verify all this information cus I still have my doubts about it on principal alone.[/disclaimer]

[jimcor]

Sorry to keep this crusty thread going, and going, and...

I've always been one of those "motor oil is motor oil" types, typically grabing what ever oil is on sale. My thinking is that as long as the oil meets the SAE spec then all is well.

I've recently started doing some more reading on the oil subject and it seems clear that not all oils are alike. Pure synthetic oils, like Amsoil & Golden Spectro, seem to be superior products but are priced accordingly. Cheaper mixed synthetics, like Rotella and Mobil 1, again seem superior to dino oil but are more expensive. So the question remains: where is the sweet spot with regard to the best cost vs. benift ratio?

Motor oils capture combustion by products and keep them in suspension in the oil. This would lead one to think that frequent oil changes are the way to go - leaning toward dino because it's cheaper. Motorcycle transmissions chew up long chain molocules in the oil though which would lean toward synthetic since they have more chemical stability.

I'm thinking that mid priced mixed synthetics are the best compromise since they are not killer expensive, so you can change it more often, yet protect the motor a little better than dino oils.

I'm a convert...for now.

Try to find a 10W40 synthetic blend. Or any synthetic blend that is not 'energy conserving'. You can't, without buying motorcycle specific oil. And I'm not paying 5 to 6 dollars a quart for synthetic blend motorcycle oil that has a substandard API rating

Today's conventional automotive oils are returning used oil analyses that are nearly as good as synthetics. Not marketing hype, nothing flashy, just a report of the ppm of what's in a used oil sample. And they're doing it for about $1.25 a quart (on sale).

So it's conventional oil for me, changed often. But, if it makes you feel any better ALL conventional oils are synthetic blends. The additives used in conventional oils are man made.

The Ultimate Oil Thread is found here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
Page after page after page of it.

[jimcor]

but he brought by the Amsoil rep when he came to town and he had a brochure that recommended these change intervals and he explained why it was okay. (too much to write and it was years ago, so I don't even know if i'd get it all right but everyone at the shop switched.)

Did your shop guy explain that the Amsoil rep was just a MLM (multi level marketing) salesman and had no connections with the Amsoil company? He probably sold diet pills and vitamins too. And that the brochure was Amsoil marketing information, nothing more. And of course you're going to find all kinds of great stuff happening to your vehicle after you use this oil, who wants to feel like they're a nut for buying ten dollar a quart oil.

I'm sure Amsoil is good stuff. It's just way overpriced and their marketing program has got a lot of folks selling this lube who really don't have a clue. Please, don't mention the four ball test...

[rustybronco]

Sorry to keep this crusty thread going, and going, and...

So the question remains: where is the sweet spot with regard to the best cost vs. benift ratio?

I'm thinking that mid priced mixed synthetics are the best compromise since they are not killer expensive, so you can change it more often, yet protect the motor a little better than dino oils.

I'm a convert...for now.

I'm GUESSING 5w40 rotella even though the amsoil rep thinks the "T" in rotella t means tar.

[pozzi]

Did your shop guy explain that the Amsoil rep was just a MLM (multi level marketing) salesman and had no connections with the Amsoil company? He probably sold diet pills and vitamins too. And that the brochure was Amsoil marketing information, nothing more. And of course you're going to find all kinds of great stuff happening to your vehicle after you use this oil, who wants to feel like they're a nut for buying ten dollar a quart oil.

I'm sure Amsoil is good stuff. It's just way overpriced and their marketing program has got a lot of folks selling this lube who really don't have a clue. Please, don't mention the four ball test...

i understand what you're saying, but i worked for a race suspension shop and the place we would get it through was the only place in the Sacramento area that supplied high end race fuels (Trick & VP) for all the rest of the suppliers in the area. the guy who we talked to wasn't some joe-schmoe-sales-guy. he explained the complete molecular structure and chemical breakdown.

he was trying to sell the owner of our shop on their fluids for his line of custom race shocks but we had a custom blend of Redline made just for us for those. our boss was a hydrolic(sp?) engineer and grilled him for the better part of the afternoon...the Amsoil rep was no dummy.
but that's not to say he wasn't trying to sell us on his product over anyone elses.

but when you priced it all out...at $8/qt x 5 qts (3.5 to fill + .5 to top it off on filter changes) + $10/filter (3 total per oil change cycle over 15,000) how much would you have paid for generic penzoil at the juffy-lube to get the same milage when you're changing all three quarts of oil and filter every 3,000 miles??? so five oil changes at Jiffy-lube for $20 each on special?

so for 15,000 mi. that's only $70 for DIY Amsoil vs. $100 for Juffy-lube & penzoil. plus two extra trips to Juffy-lube.

granted, this was OUR shop cost back 7-8 years ago, but it seems to add up to me.
I have no idea what Amsoil is actually running these days cus it's been so long.

if you check, most synthetics approve longer change intervals (normally 5,000 vs 3,000) because synthetic oils don't break down like organics do. i know Redline does.

[distraction628]

Amsoil

If you want to buy amsoil for less shoot me a message I will hook you up with my dealer and he will get you set up as a preferred customer.

I have a nissan maxima that has 140thou on it and it has only had 14 full oil changes with amsoil and still runs likie a top! Changed the valve cover gaskets and the cams look sweet. compresion is still above 165 on all the cylinders. I know scary aint it.

All my bikes have amsoil in them. I do the filter 3 times a year and a full oil change once.

Im not trying to get anyone to buy amsoil just telling you a way to buy it cheaper if you want to.

Just my .02$ worth8-)

[jimcor]

Never been to a quick lube place in my life, Iffy Lube, Valvoream or the others. So I'm doing it myself and I'm saving a little money, I'm also driving my car 4,000 miles between changes using conventional, 5,000 miles with blends. I only buy oil that's on sale. SM or SL rated at a target price of 1.25 a quart. So far, so good. I usually have enough on hand for the bike and the car between sales. Last good score on oil was under a buck a quart after rebate on Havoline. I like being able to change my oil for about $7.00 or 8.00 bucks.

The big difference is you feel good with a sump full of oil that's going to go 15,000 miles. I feel good with an oil that will only have to go 4 or 5 thousand.

The 550 gets changed at 1,000~1,500 miles The Kwacker goes a little longer because of the water cooling.

[U.P.dragracer]

FWIW I drag race my 600 bandit I have had it since new . during practice sessions using regular dino oil after 3 hard launches the clutch would get grabby and the bike would not shift well {notchy} till it cooled down .

one weekend I did a oil change at the track and did some testing . I made 3 passes with regular oil the bike ran 11.70's as usual .
dumped the oil and put in amsoil 0W40 mc oil . and made 3 more passes .
the bike ran 11.50's and the clutch has never felt grabby since and it shifts much better as well .
I also had to turn the idle down LOL!!! it picked up at least 200 rpm at idle
:roll:

[jimcor]

FWIW I drag race my 600 bandit I have had it since new . during practice sessions using regular dino oil after 3 hard launches the clutch would get grabby and the bike would not shift well {notchy} till it cooled down .

one weekend I did a oil change at the track and did some testing . I made 3 passes with regular oil the bike ran 11.70's as usual .
dumped the oil and put in amsoil 0W40 mc oil . and made 3 more passes .
the bike ran 11.50's and the clutch has never felt grabby since and it shifts much better as well .
I also had to turn the idle down LOL!!! it picked up at least 200 rpm at idle
:roll:

I know, I know...we were supposed to go on a picnic but it was pouring down rain with grapefruit size hail. I quickly ran down to the garage and changed the oil in the bike with Philips 66 TropArtic 10W40. The sun came out, the hail melted and the little birds started singing . The picnic was saved...Thanks TropArtic.

:-\" #-o O

[Jethro]

I know, I know...we were supposed to go on a picnic but it was pouring down rain with grapefruit size hail. I quickly ran down to the garage and changed the oil in the bike with Philips 66 TropArtic 10W40. The sun came out, the hail melted and the little birds started singing . The picnic was saved...Thanks TropArtic.

:-\" #-o O

LOL!!

Personally, I like synthetic over dyno. Dyno leaves an odd film on the chicken, no matter how hot I cook it. The synthetic stuff keeps the bird from sticking to the grill, and makes for that nice, crispy skin!!

Yumm, synthetic chickens...

[U.P.dragracer]

#-o OK now I feel like an A$$ ](*,)

[jimcor]

#-o OK now I feel like an A$$ ](*,)

Don't! Oil threads are a hoot! Ya just can't take 'em seriously, 'specially around here.

Last good one ended up as a debate on which one, olive or canola, made the best smelling exhaust.

[U.P.dragracer]

8-) Last good one ended up as a debate on which one, olive or canola, made the best smelling exhaust.8)

I prefer a good bean castor oil with a heavy dose of nitromethane/methonol in a 2 stroke engine #-o

oil threads are like buttholes every forum has em LOL!!!!

[Boondocks]

FWIW I drag race my 600 bandit I have had it since new . during practice sessions using regular dino oil after 3 hard launches the clutch would get grabby and the bike would not shift well {notchy} till it cooled down .

one weekend I did a oil change at the track and did some testing . I made 3 passes with regular oil the bike ran 11.70's as usual .
dumped the oil and put in amsoil 0W40 mc oil . and made 3 more passes .
the bike ran 11.50's and the clutch has never felt grabby since and it shifts much better as well .
I also had to turn the idle down LOL!!! it picked up at least 200 rpm at idle
:roll:

In spite of the mockery, your experience has some basis in fact. Some synthetic oils can increase horsepower, and improve clutch action as well. This was documented in the Sport Rider Motorcycle Oil Test. Go to the section under "Dyno Test" and you will find that a couple of synthetic racing oils that made claims for increased horsepower actually did so, and also delivered improved clutch performance. The increase in idle speed would presumably be from the reduction in parasitic drag of the "regular" oil.

[Poot]

i replaced all my gaskets, and am not sure whether to go to syn as i dont want leaks to start up.


i know they shouldn't, but when i put it all back together with regular oil, the first day looked like it had a sweat on the base gasket. its alll good now, and I've done 12000km on the bike since, but dont want to have to take things off again.

i had a real nightmare with old stuck on gaskets. (yes i did every trick in the book and then some) so i've been using regular. I've worked at one of those lube shops and know the benefits of syn (doesnt burn up nearly as fast) .

do you guys think it would be ok?


poot