GS850G Won't Start, Electrical Issue, No Spark

[dandypop]

My bike is a custom-wired cafe racer (no haters, please). I had it running top notch and was really enjoying my time on the bike, when tragedy struck. I think my R/R failed and I had an overcharging issue. My AGM battery (under the rear cowl/fairing) blew it's seals and leaked out fluid, which shorted out the entire lighting system (all light components were on their own circuits). Fried every last one of them, had to replace headlight, turn signals, digital gauge, tail lights, etc. All fried. After replacing everything and verifying that all the wiring was good, and replacing the R/R with an SH775 from our friend here on the site, I attempted to fire the bike up and it will not start. All fuel-related troubleshooting was attempted, and verified that my float bowls fill, fuel is moving to the carbs, etc.

I am getting no spark at the plugs. I did every test I could find that doesn't require a running bike, and validated that the coils are good, stator has the proper low resistance and no grounding, signal generator has the proper resistance. I can't find a good/easy/understandable way to test my igniter, and I don't know what else I might be missing.

Please help me walk through possibilities, for any of you who have time. Where should I start?

 

[KiwiAlfa156]

Is it standard ignition, or aftermarket?

 

[Buffalo Bill]

Any service manual will outline a trouble shooting process for no spark.

 

[dandypop]

Is it standard ignition, or aftermarket?

Standard.

If anyone knows how to test the TCI/Igniter, I'd appreciate some guidance. The service manual is not super clear to me on that one. It requires a Suzuki "pocket tester" which I don't have. And the manual from June 1983 that I have must be for the older bikes because it talks about points, but the later '83 bikes moved to the transistorized igniter system and does not have points.

 

[rphillips]

Just something simple and easy. If running resistor plugs, remove plug and ground it to eng. then look at spark on plug while cranking. next install a non resistor plug on that same wire and cap and compare that spark to the resistor plug spark. This happened to me, a few yrs. back, and I saw a huge difference in the sparks. I installed 4 non resistors and bike fired right up and is still running great today with the non resistor plugs..

 

[dandypop]

Just something simple and easy. If running resistor plugs, remove plug and ground it to eng. then look at spark on plug while cranking. next install a non resistor plug on that same wire and cap and compare that spark to the resistor plug spark. This happened to me, a few yrs. back, and I saw a huge difference in the sparks. I installed 4 non resistors and bike fired right up and is still running great today with the non resistor plugs..

rphillips, I appreciate the response, but need some clarification. What do resistored/non-resistored spark plugs have to do with my problem? I'm not asking for a performance increase; I am getting zero spark after a serious overcharging situation. As I stated in the original post, I am not getting any spark whatsoever and am looking for help to solve that issue.

I used the test method from a GS1100 manual to test the TCI. If any of you have done this and can help me validate my findings, I'd appreciate it. I do not have a Suzuki Pocket Tester, so I tested it with my multimeter on ohms and still did not get a spark at plugs 3 or 4. Does a multimeter even have the ability to generate a spark the way a Pocket Tester would? Any other ideas on how to test the TCI?

 

[dandypop]

Any service manual will outline a trouble shooting process for no spark.

Buffalo Bill, do you have any experience testing TCI's? I could use some help on this, man. The manual is not doing it for me on this one, I need gurus.

 

[chuck hahn]

If you put a dyna ignition in it the igniter (CDI) goes away. You simply wire the red wire into one of theb12 volt supply leads to a coil. The black lead goes to one coil and the white to the other. If it wont start or pops and backfires switch the nlack and white leads. Toss the igniter.

 

[Buffalo Bill]

I'm understanding Chucks test procedure. My Clymer manual test is the same but said in different words.
Take plugs 3 & 4 out but connected to coil wires, rest them against the engine so they're grounded so if they spark you can see it.
Turn on the bike, but don't touch the starter button.
Your meter should be set to Resistance 1
Take the blue and green leads from the ingniter, connect the + meter lead to the blue wire, and the - to the green wire.
Number 4 plug should spark, disconnect the - lead and the 3 plug should spark.
You only want to see one spark from each plug, not start the engine.
If nothing happens, search Ebay for a replacement igniter and buy it.
PS: If you tested everything else and it was all good, and you're sure the igniter is prime suspect, buy one without testing the old.
PPS: You can use a 1.5v flashlight battery instead of a meter, because it's the meter or 1.5v battery that is loading the coil with elec. for the spark.

 

[rphillips]

Didn't mean resistor or non resistor plugs had anything to do with your problem... A few yrs back I thought I had no spark on my GSX1100G after it's winter nap. It would crank fine but no sign of trying to start, no pop, try to hit a little, just like no spark. Pulled a plug to check the spark, and after shutting the garage doors to make it darker could see a very small weak spark. I plugged in a non resistor plug and the spark got big and bright blue, as it should be. I installed the 4 non resistors and my bike fired right up, still running them today with no problems... Just thought it'd be simple for you, while scratching your head, to give it a try, possibly your problem could be what mine had been. Hope you get it sorted quickly and easily.

 

[chuck hahn]

I wasnt laying out a test procedure. I was saying upgrade to a Dyna and be done with igniter box.

 

[KiwiAlfa156]

Standard.

If anyone knows how to test the TCI/Igniter, I'd appreciate some guidance. The service manual is not super clear to me on that one. It requires a Suzuki "pocket tester" which I don't have. And the manual from June 1983 that I have must be for the older bikes because it talks about points, but the later '83 bikes moved to the transistorized igniter system and does not have points.

The stock GS Suzuki electronic ignition is pretty basic. Its a pair of pick up coils that pass an alternating signal spike to the 'black box' Ignitor.



Even the 'black box' isn't that complicated being really a pair of solid state relays alternately switched off in response to the polarity from the signal generator. So in effect an electronic analogue of two set of points. It's not CDI. There are no capacitors, and no high voltage discharge from the Ignitor unit. It just passes 12V to the coils to saturate them and then interrupts the current to collapse the field in the coil. The advance is mechanical, there's nothing special in the box.



If it were me, given the damage do to all the other electronics, I'd be thinking that the diodes and or transistors in the Ignitor are probably cooked. Given its solid state, I'd just get a second hand ignitor and replace the dud one. May be check the signal coils for continuity/short to ground? Hope this helps.

 

[dandypop]

I'm understanding Chucks test procedure. My Clymer manual test is the same but said in different words.
Take plugs 3 & 4 out but connected to coil wires, rest them against the engine so they're grounded so if they spark you can see it.
Turn on the bike, but don't touch the starter button.
Your meter should be set to Resistance 1
Take the blue and green leads from the ingniter, connect the + meter lead to the blue wire, and the - to the green wire.
Number 4 plug should spark, disconnect the - lead and the 3 plug should spark.
You only want to see one spark from each plug, not start the engine.
If nothing happens, search Ebay for a replacement igniter and buy it.
PS: If you tested everything else and it was all good, and you're sure the igniter is prime suspect, buy one without testing the old.
PPS: You can use a 1.5v flashlight battery instead of a meter, because it's the meter or 1.5v battery that is loading the coil with elec. for the spark.

This is exactly what I needed! I was testing it with the bike off, and getting no spark. Also, I did check the signal generator according to the service manual and it looks good.

I'll run the TCI test again (properly) and report back.

 

[dandypop]

If you put a dyna ignition in it the igniter (CDI) goes away. You simply wire the red wire into one of theb12 volt supply leads to a coil. The black lead goes to one coil and the white to the other. If it wont start or pops and backfires switch the nlack and white leads. Toss the igniter.

A used TCI is running $100+ on eBay. Perhaps I'll upgrade to the Dyna if I have to replace it.

 

[dandypop]

I wasnt laying out a test procedure. I was saying upgrade to a Dyna and be done with igniter box.

Am I understanding correctly that this would replace the signal generator, but I'd keep the mechanical advance device that's in there with the signal generator?

 

[chuck hahn]

Dandypop.. heres my angle. WHY spend 100 on anything off ebay and have it be bad or not solve anything when for another 60 or 70 bucks just go dyna and know absolutely youll never have to deal with obsolete ignition crap again. Now if you just wat to spend double eventually them go for it. And i have never bought dyna coils just because i went to dyna ignition..EVER!!! I use the stock coils and havent had an issue so dont buy into the you must use dyna coils bullcrap.

 

[dandypop]

Dandypop.. heres my angle. WHY spend 100 on anything off ebay and have it be bad or not solve anything when for another 60 or 70 bucks just go dyna and know absolutely youll never have to deal with obsolete ignition crap again. Now if you just wat to spend double eventually them go for it. And i have never bought dyna coils just because i went to dyna ignition..EVER!!! I use the stock coils and havent had an issue so dont buy into the you must use dyna coils bullcrap.

You convinced me. It's on the way.

 

[Nessism]

Is your bike an 850G or 850GL? Reason for asking, the G model has the ignition advance built into the ignitor, while the GL uses the older style ignitor with a centrifugal advance unit. The Dyna S requires a mechanical advance unit. You can retrofit one from a different bike even if you have a G model bike. The advance units are fairly common, and fit a bunch of different bikes, so finding one shouldn't be overly difficult.

 

[dandypop]

It is a G. I guess I’m going to have to wait a little longer to get this thing back on the road! do you know what years or models have an interchangeable part? If you don’t off the top of your head I’ll do some research and find it. I sure appreciate your help!

 

[chuck hahn]

what year is it. one post stated it has the mechanical advance..yes? IF SO, you just put their rotor on . Set the F mark on the 1-4 marks on the timing indicator and the rotor should be pointing to the left. If its pointing right refit the rotor on the advance. Then line up the rotor flat metal tab to the pickup to static time it. I use a sharpie to mark the pick up to make it easy to line them up. You start it and use timing light to fine set timing on 1-4 mark first. Then check 2-3 but theyre usually spot on and theb 2-3 pick up doesnt need adjusted. Do you have part 5 here already? if yes youre all set.

1980 Suzuki GS850G Signal Generator | Part Shark​