1982 GS850, two wires on battery ground

[Guest]

I have a question. On this year, maybe others, there is a small gauge ground wire that attaches to the battery ground or negative terminal. Well 20 years ago or so I failed to hook up the battery ground to frame and only hooked up this tiny wire, then turned the key on. There was a bit of smoke and I realized my mistake immediately. Never chased the fried wire, just made the proper connection and rode the bike a good 15,000 miles or so. Well the stator has quit, and while inspecting the bike, (it sat for a while), I saw the burned wire going up the main harness, oh boy. I have the factory manual, but cannot seem to find in the wiring diagram where it leads to. Just ran the bike with that ground disconnected and didn't see anything adversely effected. Makes me wonder because it seems to have developed a habit of running on only 2 cylinders unless I wiggle the harness that is up by the steering head. I did change the coils, and made sure the connections were clean and tight.

Any ideas and help much appreciated. Would like to get this rather young, less than 25,000 miles, bike back on the road. Touring, although doable, is not much fun on my SuperGlide for long distance, (have done 480 mile days), and it does not do speed bumps at all.

Val Vascik

 

[Brendan W]

Hi Val and Welcome to the Forum
Here is our Library
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/
That small wire may have been one of the two chassis grounds from above the airbox.
Check the harness for chafing at the steering stem. It's a fairly common problem.
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/images/80GS850GT_wiring_color.gif

 

[posplayr]

I have a question. On this year, maybe others, there is a small gauge ground wire that attaches to the battery ground or negative terminal. Well 20 years ago or so I failed to hook up the battery ground to frame and only hooked up this tiny wire, then turned the key on. There was a bit of smoke and I realized my mistake immediately. Never chased the fried wire, just made the proper connection and rode the bike a good 15,000 miles or so. Well the stator has quit, and while inspecting the bike, (it sat for a while), I saw the burned wire going up the main harness, oh boy. I have the factory manual, but cannot seem to find in the wiring diagram where it leads to. Just ran the bike with that ground disconnected and didn't see anything adversely effected. Makes me wonder because it seems to have developed a habit of running on only 2 cylinders unless I wiggle the harness that is up by the steering head. I did change the coils, and made sure the connections were clean and tight.

Any ideas and help much appreciated. Would like to get this rather young, less than 25,000 miles, bike back on the road. Touring, although doable, is not much fun on my SuperGlide for long distance, (have done 480 mile days), and it does not do speed bumps at all.

Val Vascik

I'll keep this simple becuase grounding is a controversial topic as several people will suggest that the battery negative is ground (which it is not when your bike is charging).

You need to get all ground currents to the R/R(-). Usually you do this at something called a "single point ground". I recommend locating that at one of your R/R mounting bolts.

I used to produce a Solid State Power Box and shipped all SSPB's with a SPG harness. Basically in look like the following

14 awg wire from SPG to R/R(-)
16 awg wire from SPG to Frame
16 awg wire from SPG to battery(-)

This means there are three wires going int a coming SPG ring lug.

You also stack your harness B/W ring lug on top of the SPG.

If the B/W that leads into the harness b8urned, you should follow that wire into the harness and replace it. There is probably another ring lng ground that is also burned. You will probably only have to go 6-8" inside of the harness.

This will solve your problem assuming nothing else is wrong.

Do a Quick Test after making the changes to see if anything else is wrong.

Here is something similar that happened to my first GS before I got it. The B/W wire between the two ground ring lugs (81 GS 750E ) were burned. Simply replacing the wire and cleaning up the grounds fixed the problems.

 

[Guest]

I briefly looked at that burned wire, the main harness shows signs of heat ie, you can track it 3/4 of the way forward, (12-18 inches) up under the tank. It must have melted the insulation on other wires and finally after 20 years they are compromised and grounding, or broken. If I recall from what I saw towards the back part of the harness wires other than the ground were exposed. Looks like some investigation is needed and more than likely some repairs/splicing. Not looking forward to this.

Thank-you for the help.

 

[Guest]

Thanks. Just restarted the bike last week and it was running on a different 3 cylinders, #2 was cold this time....carbs, again, I didn't drain them; full of what used to be gas. Cleaned and back on. The wire, it is a body ground and everything seems to connect to it. Looks good at the battery but the connection under the tool tray was blown apart maybe one or two strands connected. Cutting harness apart now very carefully to replace wire. So far I have not found any other compromised wires....maybe the black one for the lights, we will see.

On another note not electrical, I need a snorkel for the airbox, mine has seen its day. Or should I just epoxy a screen in over the hole to keep critters out?

 

[LAB3]

On another note not electrical, I need a snorkel for the airbox, mine has seen its day. Or should I just epoxy a screen in over the hole to keep critters out?

On my bike that would allow several more times the area for air to freely flow. My guess is that would make similar to trying to tune for pods, not a job I personally would want to monkey with. Being cheap by nature I might close off the area covered by the missing snorkel to match the same area that would be open in the original snorkel. My path of least headaches would be to look for a replacement on eBay.

 

[Guest]

Well this wire is cooked. I have worked my way from under the tool storage area all the way up to he big "Y" under the tank towards the front. Still searching for a viable spot to splice into. Good thing is I still haven't found any other compromised wires. This is looking more and more like a harness removal and at that point maybe a new to me harness.

 

[Guest]

I have found the end of the burned wire. It stopped where Suzuki attached 4 other grounds to the body ground wire in the area above and slightly behind the head. Coming from the headlight or front of the bike I have what appears to be a 16 gauge wire that would be the body ground as the manual calls it. This is what burned from the back to this junction. The other component ground wires are smaller, 18 gauge maybe. Should I rebuild this mega junction or run each ground separately to a single point? I am a novice at wiring, I can install a car stereo and did successfully relocate turn signals on my Harley to accommodate saddlebags, but that is the limit of my experience. I am only guessing on wire gauge so any info would be helpful before I start splicing.

The R/R is infront of the rear wheel. I check continuity to ground between the bolts and the battery negative cable, no continuity. The B/W wire from R/R attaches to bottom bolt of starter solenoid mount, no continuity there either, but that could be my mistake.

Thanks
Val

 

[posplayr]

I have found the end of the burned wire. It stopped where Suzuki attached 4 other grounds to the body ground wire in the area above and slightly behind the head. Coming from the headlight or front of the bike I have what appears to be a 16 gauge wire that would be the body ground as the manual calls it. This is what burned from the back to this junction. The other component ground wires are smaller, 18 gauge maybe. Should I rebuild this mega junction or run each ground separately to a single point? I am a novice at wiring, I can install a car stereo and did successfully relocate turn signals on my Harley to accommodate saddlebags, but that is the limit of my experience. I am only guessing on wire gauge so any info would be helpful before I start splicing.

The R/R is infront of the rear wheel. I check continuity to ground between the bolts and the battery negative cable, no continuity. The B/W wire from R/R attaches to bottom bolt of starter solenoid mount, no continuity there either, but that could be my mistake.

Thanks
Val

It might help if you post a picture, but if it is similar to my example you have a grounding issue. The ground current is going into the harness on one ground ring lug and exiting on another ring lug.

A SPG would help a lot, but to be safe you could also replace the burned wires with 16ga as they are probably 18 ga.

This schematic shows a SPG. Do not move the SPG to the battery (-) terminal.

 

[Guest]

Exactly like what happened in your example. I connected only the ring lug to the battery years ago and the current travelled through that wire, (didn't burn it), to the main B/W wire and back to the ring lug underneath the tool box. What burned was the B/W wire from the big junction (5 wires) under the gas tank back to the ring lug under the tool box. Must have been only 2 or 3 strands of wires left at that ground point for years. Lucky the whole harness didn't burn up, what a dumb move on my part. So I have hacked out the toasted wire and will splice in a new piece of 16 gauge and splice all the other grounds back in like Suzuki did.

My wiring diagram shows 2 grounds on that harness, page 17-37 of the manual, one connects with the battery ground and is shown up by the ignitor in the diagram, the other <under the tool box, is below it in the diagram by the signal generator. Would be nice if they showed where they were on the bike, took me a while to figure it out. I did run the bike with the ground that attaches with the battery negative not connected, checked all the systems and they all worked...through the 2 or 3 strands that were providing ground. I should perhaps relocate this ground?

Thank you for your help

Val

 

[posplayr]

Exactly like what happened in your example. I connected only the ring lug to the battery years ago and the current travelled through that wire, (didn't burn it), to the main B/W wire and back to the ring lug underneath the tool box. What burned was the B/W wire from the big junction (5 wires) under the gas tank back to the ring lug under the tool box. Must have been only 2 or 3 strands of wires left at that ground point for years. Lucky the whole harness didn't burn up, what a dumb move on my part. So I have hacked out the toasted wire and will splice in a new piece of 16 gauge and splice all the other grounds back in like Suzuki did.

My wiring diagram shows 2 grounds on that harness, page 17-37 of the manual, one connects with the battery ground and is shown up by the ignitor in the diagram, the other <under the tool box, is below it in the diagram by the signal generator. Would be nice if they showed where they were on the bike, took me a while to figure it out. I did run the bike with the ground that attaches with the battery negative not connected, checked all the systems and they all worked...through the 2 or 3 strands that were providing ground. I should perhaps relocate this ground?

Thank you for your help

Val

I did not bother to digup your manual, but generally that wire from the SPG to the battery (-) is a recommended upgrade at the GSR for going on 15 years; it is not stock on any bike.

So if the ring lug you are referring to is the OE harness B/W (connected to battery -)then you are not following the SPG.

At the bottom of the subject diagram you can see the harness and ground indicated with two horizontal lines each of which has a wire running to the SPG (not the battery).

I have looked at enough schematics and actual harness ground connections to know that Suzuki generally had a confused notion of grounding on their bikes. The diagram i show is not the only way to do it, but based on my analysis provides the most tolerant configuration for maintain low voltage drop subject to expected corrosion.

Your burned wires are likely a failure mechanism of the OE R/R you were using, so it is not likely to happen again if you change R/Rs.

 

[Guest]

I did not bother to digup your manual, but generally that wire from the SPG to the battery (-) is a recommended upgrade at the GSR for going on 15 years; it is not stock on any bike.

So if the ring lug you are referring to is the OE harness B/W (connected to battery -)then you are not following the SPG.

At the bottom of the subject diagram you can see the harness and ground indicated with two horizontal lines each of which has a wire running to the SPG (not the battery).

I have looked at enough schematics and actual harness ground connections to know that Suzuki generally had a confused notion of grounding on their bikes. The diagram i show is not the only way to do it, but based on my analysis provides the most tolerant configuration for maintain low voltage drop subject to expected corrosion.

Your burned wires are likely a failure mechanism of the OE R/R you were using, so it is not likely to happen again if you change R/Rs.

I will see if I can get a picture and post it on here. I basically rebuilt what Suzuki had. I know what a single point ground is, just need pictures to get it done. I am in no way an electrician so with out pics I am lost. I need to search the forum I am sure how to do a SPG is on here and well explained.

Thanks

Val

 

[Guest]

Okay, thank you all for the help. Wire is replace, and so is the stator, wires were burned on it too.