1983 GS450GA (Suzukimatic) Carb Strip and Ball Bearing WTF?

[gtd2000]

I just bought a very low mileage GS450GA this weekend and the carbs appear to be clogged.

I removed them from the bike tonight to have a look at the internals, which don't appear to be too bad after all but will still need a bit of a clean up.

During disassembly I noticed that there were a couple of ball bearings - one in each carb but I've no idea where they came from?

Can anybody advise

 

[gtd2000]

The ball bearings were in the float bowl area - I've only removed this so far to have a look at the jets and check the floats etc.

 

[Gorminrider]

Not sure about the GA but on my400, those two tiny ball bearings would be from the choke activating shaft as "detentes" if that's the right word for what they do....there's a little spring under them that pops them into the shaft notches..otherwise they hold the shaft from flopping around in it's bearing so it slides smoothly too

They don't show in the fiche but you seem to have a similar shaft part 71 here- the spring and ball bearing go in the carb body before you replace the shaft on reassembly. goes without saying to be careful...I've spent unhappy time looking for these among the spider droppings on the shop floor...

http://www.cmsnl.com/suzuki-gs450-ga-1982-1983-usa_model16016/partslist/92292.html#results

 

[gtd2000]

...Yeah,....I understand exactly what you mean regarding the choke mechanism and the detente, as I've experienced the same issue when stripping the carbs on my old 86 Slabby GSX-R750.

Barn floors and carbs do not mix at all!!!!

....I did retrieve all of the parts fortunately.

In this case, the choke mechanism shouldn't be the culprit as they (the BB's) were inside the float bowls (one in each side) but I'll have a double check tomorrow.

I'll possibly take some photos to help identify the buggers!

 

[gtd2000]

Here's an image of the ball bearing in Question - I've placed it on the the choke slider bar to get an indication of size.

 

[Gorminrider]

Then failing the choke slider shaft my guess would be the accelerator pumps that you have and I do not. I'd guess that these would sit on top of a spring too....

Nothing like a "What-is-it" to stimulate the little grey cells!

 

[gtd2000]

It looks like I might have found a possibility while cleaning the carbs....



and...



The gas was really bad in these carbs and just smelt like some sort of solvent.

Fortunately everything is cleaning up pretty nicely so far, only had one minor balls up (pun intended) when one of the o-rings broke on the tube for the float needle (with the filter on top).

Called a local Suzuki dealer who suggested going to Ace Hardware for one?

I see Harborfreight.com does packs of o-rings and wonder if they would be suitable instead?
http://www.harborfreight.com/225-piece-metric-nitrile-o-ring-assortment-67609.html

 

[eil]

I don't think those balls go there. For one, that's where the gasket and float bowl goes and both have to sit flush in that mating surface. Two, all of the balls I've seen in Mikuni carbs have been brass, not steel or whatever that is. They act as plugs for areas that were drilled out to make internal passages for the various circuits. At a guess, some previous owner put them in on account of some wives' tale he heard. Eh, POs have done stranger things.

As to the o-rings, here is where you get a complete set for cheap money: http://cycleorings.com/ This site is run by a forum member. See #8 for your kit.

 

[gtd2000]

P6 appears be fine, Not sure how long out will last but out will do until i find out of the carbs are running after the first clean
clean.

 

[gtd2000]

Well, I've pulled them apart, cleaned them and rebuilt them.



Still have these two ominous parts left over though....



I was also not 100% sure on the location of the two small barrel shaped items that are a bronze colour but I think they went into the correct holes....

 

[gtd2000]

Carbs back on the bike, did a quick test fire without any cables or filters attached and all appeared well.

Reassembled the bike and then realised once everything was back together that I'd forgotten to install the frigging throttle cable - lots of swearing and about 15 minutes later, I manage to get the cable installed "in-situ".

Took the bike out for a run and all seems to be well.

The gear-selection is much more clunky than I expected but the bike runs really well indeed.

Time to look for some new rubber to replace the original 1983 tyres!

 

[Guest]

The ball bearings ride on the choke rod as mentioned earlier.
There are indentations on the choke rod that holds the choke open with the spring loaded ball bearings.
Use a little grease to hold the bearing inside the choke rod port. Use the little holes to push the bearings in while sliding the choke rod through.

 

[gtd2000]

I've got that type of choke on my GSX-R750 with the push/pull sliding rod.

With this little GS450GA I have a handlebar mounted choke lever that does not appear to need the ball bearings to hold the choke rod?

These ball bearings are around twice the size of the bb's on the GSX-R. On the GSX-R they came out when I removed the choke rod but that wasn't necessary with the GS450.

The only part of the carb assembly that was removed was the float bowl, when the first bb was noticed.

It would be great if the bb's came from the choke rod but it seems unlikely due to not being disassembled and being too large (compared to the gixxer)?

 

[Gorminrider]

I wonder if the PO left them in the bowl for safe-keeping when he/she couldn't place them either. Perhaps they were even Mysteries that were rolling around his workbench and nothing to do with the carbs?

hey, with a lever you maybe don't need friction on the choke rod anyways.

(though the holes I see in your carb picture above (with the pink), on the mounts for the choke rod do draw my attention...sigh-something for the Museum of Extra Parts, eh?)

 

[eil]

If the HF o-rings don't explicitly say on the package somewhere that they're safe for petroleum applications, it would be well worth your time to order a set from the site that I recommended above and install them before the HF o-rings melt/dissolve/disintegrate or otherwise make a mess of your carbs.

 

[gtd2000]

If the HF o-rings don't explicitly say on the package somewhere that they're safe for petroleum applications, it would be well worth your time to order a set from the site that I recommended above and install them before the HF o-rings melt/dissolve/disintegrate or otherwise make a mess of your carbs.

Yeah, I read the following blurb before purchasing the o-rings and hopefully that's covered;

This o-ring set consists of 18 of the most used o-ring sizes to accommodate a variety of tasks. The nitrile constructed rings resist heat, most petroleum, most silicone fluids and solvents. The o rings come organized in a convenient storage case with an included sizing guide for easy size identification. A great o-ring set for auto mechanics and machinists.

• 18 of the most used O-ring sizes in one organized PVC case
• Nitrile rings resist heat, most petroleum and silicone fluids, hydraulic and non-aromatic fuels, and solvents

I was really just wanting to make sure that my non-starting problem was limited to blocked carbs, which, so far, appears to be the case.

If the carb starts leaking, I guess that nitrile o-rings don't resist per my expectations...

Time will tell of course....fingers crossed! :very_drunk:

 

[gtd2000]

I wonder if the PO left them in the bowl for safe-keeping when he/she couldn't place them either. Perhaps they were even Mysteries that were rolling around his workbench and nothing to do with the carbs?

hey, with a lever you maybe don't need friction on the choke rod anyways.

(though the holes I see in your carb picture above (with the pink), on the mounts for the choke rod do draw my attention...sigh-something for the Museum of Extra Parts, eh?)

We are on the same logic with the lever/choke rod.

I'm not too pleased with myself for not noticing where the BB's came from to be honest, that said, it's all working fine for now so can't complain too much really.

If the BB was shown on one of the parts diagrams then it seems more likely I've missed something but I don't see it listed...then again perhaps my eyesight is going too! lol

 

[gtd2000]

Can anybody expand on this?

Do believe ball bearings go into a hole (indention) next to needle valve.

 

[gtd2000]

Well, the bike is still running without the BBs but notice that it likes a fair bit of choke to start, despite the warm Florida weather.

Noticed the air filter is clean but bone dry, guess I will need to get that oiled up.

 

[gtd2000]

I've been looking at a few carb rebuild/teardown articles and note that there are parts in my carbs that are not mentioned, not including the aforementioned ball bearings!

In the bottom of my float bowls there are a couple of bronze coloured pellets or small tubular shaped metal objects that sit on top of a spring.

Does anybody know what they are and what the function is?

Could they be connected with the ball bearing function?

Edit: Here's the place where it hides....