1985 GS1150 No Start, Battery Okay

[Mulkaccino]

Well, I haven't had a chance to ride my new and beloved GS1150E since I got it since it failed to start shortly thereafter. While I wait for the mechanical parts in the mail (replacement for cracked clutch lever, tools and parts for valve adjustment/carb syncing) I decided to try to figure out why it won't start.

The Problem: When I push the ignition switch, nothing happens. No attempt to turn over, no clicking, no humming. When I purchased the bike, I was able to start and stop it with zero issues. The bike definitely ran weak. After about 100 miles of riding, I pulled into a gas station fuel it up and hit the starter switch. It chugged half heartedly. I did this 2 or 3 more times, each time the turnover attempt getting weaker and weaker until it finally arrived at it's current state, no start but power to all lighting/horn. ~12.4V off an idle battery and the battery test puts in in the high "weak" low/"it's all good" setting (accidentally killed it this morning, and it's now on the trickle charger). The battery is fairly new. Kill switch is in the correct position, kickstand is up, clutched pulled in. I've been on that rodeo before with my Kawasaki KLR

I'm unintimidated by mechanical work, but am a little sheepish and lacking in knowledge on electrical work; the most I've done is instal a fuse box (to replace the tube fuses with blades) and heated grips on my KLR. I did buy a FSM, have a Haynes, have been going to through threads in this forum, and have been learning how to better use my multimeter, but where should I start? I'm wondering if the way the bike died might provide some clues that I'm not privy to and help give me direction.

-Mulk

 

[tom203]

When you get your battery recharged, see if you can do this quick test and report all 6 results (if bike does start )... This is a starting point, but doesn't explain your starting problems. Is your battery the right size for your bike?

http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...System-QUICK-TEST/page2&p=1272192#post1272192

 

[Mulkaccino]

When you get your battery recharged, see if you can do this quick test and report all 6 results (if bike does start )... This is a starting point, but doesn't explain your starting problems. Is your battery the right size for your bike?

Did the first two steps and I'm getting good numbers. 12.85V key off and 12.41V key on after 10 seconds. Battery is compatible with no corrosion; the previous owner said it was fairly new and it looks that way

 

[tom203]

Ok... You need to find the starter solenoid. This has one big wire running to battery positive and another biggie going into starter motor. There is a little wire connection on the solenoid also..... this is the trigger wire to activate the solenoid (so starter motor spins). If you use a jumper wire connected to battery positive and this little solenoid connection, the starter should spin. Beware! Put bike in neutral before atttempting this.

 

[posplayr]

Did the first two steps and I'm getting good numbers. 12.85V key off and 12.41V key on after 10 seconds. Battery is compatible with no corrosion; the previous owner said it was fairly new and it looks that way

Realize these bikes have a clutch safety feature that requires you to pull the clutch in. You can disable it by shorting the two wires that go to the clutch perch. Other than that basic troubleshooting:

1.) With Ignition key on, Kill Switch on, you should have 12V nominal to the Coil (+) both coils. It it is too low (<11V) you have dirty contacts in Ignition switch and fuse box. Get some Deoxit and naval jelly to do chemical cleaning.

2.) The engine should now crank when you push the start button. If not, make sure there is 12V on the Yellow/Green wire at the solenoid (this could be blocked by the clutch safety feature above)when you push the start button and make sure there is a Black/White wire to one of the solenoid bolts (ground). You can jumper the two big poles also to just see if the starter will crank without using teh start button).

3.) If you measure the negative side of the coils, you should see them move between about 1V to 12V and continue to cycle as the engine cranks over. Each tome the voltage goes from 1V ==> 12V is when you get a spark (stick a screw driver into the high tension wire from one of the spark plugs and hold it near the head (metal) so it can arch. Should be able to jump a 1/8" gap but a blue spark. If the coil voltage is at say 10.5V you can have a hard start situation. Again cleaning contacts or going to the Coil Relay mod are typical solutions especially for the big bikes.

Get through this with some results and check back in.

 

[posplayr]

Ok... You need to find the starter solenoid. This has one big wire running to battery positive and another biggie going into starter motor. There is a little wire connection on the solenoid also..... this is the trigger wire to activate the solenoid (so starter motor spins). If you use a jumper wire connected to battery positive and this little solenoid connection, the starter should spin. Beware! Put bike in neutral before atttempting this.

+1, you beat me to it

 

[tom203]

+1, you beat me to it

Yeah, but I forgot to mention that solenoid frame needs to have a good ground or the jumper won't do it either! I

 

[posplayr]

Yeah, but I forgot to mention that solenoid frame needs to have a good ground or the jumper won't do it either! I

And this

http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...trical-Connenctions&highlight=contact+cleaner

 

[Mulkaccino]

Found the solenoid (FSM calls it a relay, which was hampering my progress). First I did the solenoid bypass test, bridging the battery input wire to the starter output wire and it fires right up. Yea~! There were two little wires, the yellow that leads to the starter disconnect switch, starter button, engine kill switch, etc, and a black one for the ground. When I bridge the + battery terminal to the yellow wire at the solenoid, it ticks, like a mechanical gate is opening; when I remove the connection, it ticks again. The bike does not start in this instance.

Also notice that, before I tested both of these, only the side stand indicator light was on, and it turned off properly when I put the stand up. Now the sidestand indicator, break light indicator, oil indicator, and headlight indicator are all on all the time, even though all are working.

 

[posplayr]

Found the solenoid (FSM calls it a relay, which was hampering my progress). First I did the solenoid bypass test, bridging the battery input wire to the starter output wire and it fires right up. Yea~! There were two little wires, the yellow that leads to the starter disconnect switch, starter button, engine kill switch, etc, and a black one for the ground. When I bridge the + battery terminal to the yellow wire at the solenoid, it ticks, like a mechanical gate is opening; when I remove the connection, it ticks again. The bike does not start in this instance.

Also notice that, before I tested both of these, only the side stand indicator light was on, and it turned off properly when I put the stand up. Now the sidestand indicator, break light indicator, oil indicator, and headlight indicator are all on all the time, even though all are working.

You need to double check your wire colors.

The "yellow" is a yellow with green tracer(Y/G) and the "Black" is a Black with white tracer (B/W). This convention is common to virtually all GS Suzuki s.

Either you solenoid is bad or it does not have a ground. Check the B/W wire. You will note that the Y/G is the only wire going to the solenoid (other than the large starter cables). The current comes back though the solenoid framne moun t(where it bolts down) and there needs to be a B/W under that bolt or somewhere on your side plate. This is also detailed in the FSM in the back.

You can replace the solenoid, your can probably repair the one you have unless the internal coil has opened. Since your clicks I suspect it is not blown. You probably have bad contacts that are not allowing the full current required to flow or the crow bar inside the solenoid is somehow not sliding.

If you know someone that can solder, you can dis assemble the top of the solenoid, and clean teh guts from the inside. There is that single solder ball at the top that has to be removed. (where the Y/G wire connects).

 

[Mulkaccino]

After installing a new starter relay and having no luck I started investigating all my switches. Clutch switch was the culprit. the inside was so full of gunk that the sliding copper piece that the closes the circuit wasn't making a connection. I bridged it, and she started up wonderfully. Wish it was like my KLR where the bike being in neutral doesn't require a pull in of the clutch. I eventually will install a bypass switch for use (and testing) in emergencies. Big fan of contingency switches

I don't really get why the bike start up got progressively weaker before it died, though. Doesn't seem to match the issue in my head so I think there's something else at play here.

 

[posplayr]

If you had a. Opt meter much of the mystery would disappear

 

[Mulkaccino]

An a. Opt meter?

 

[dorkburger]

The clutch switch is simple to bypsss. Somewhere under the tank is a set of connectors that lead up to the switch. Unplug the 2 wires, plug in the wires from the harness into each other. Done....

 

[Mulkaccino]

The clutch switch is simple to bypsss. Somewhere under the tank is a set of connectors that lead up to the switch. Unplug the 2 wires, plug in the wires from the harness into each other. Done....

Perfect! I was looking behind the headlight.

 

[dorkburger]

Hmmmm. Mines an es. I just noticed that yours is an e.
It may be different. Easiest way would be to just follow the wireset out from the switch.

 

[Mulkaccino]

Well, I just got slightly terrified. Bypassed the clutch safety, started up fine. Replaced the headlight (high beam wasn't working) started up fine. Did some bodywork stuff and started up again because I was happy she was running (though she's burning oil) and when I went to turn her off the engine shut down but the started motor started engaging continuously. Turned the key off and hit the engine kill switch just in case. Starter motor was still engaging, finally stopping just before I was about to pull the main fuse. Was a little shaken up thinking the bike was going to explode on me.

 

[posplayr]

Well, I just got slightly terrified. Bypassed the clutch safety, started up fine. Replaced the headlight (high beam wasn't working) started up fine. Did some bodywork stuff and started up again because I was happy she was running (though she's burning oil) and when I went to turn her off the engine shut down but the started motor started engaging continuously. Turned the key off and hit the engine kill switch just in case. Starter motor was still engaging, finally stopping just before I was about to pull the main fuse. Was a little shaken up thinking the bike was going to explode on me.

Either you shorted the cluctch safety switch to +12V or the start button is hanging. It takes +12V to the solenoid to engage it.

 

[Mulkaccino]

Either you shorted the cluctch safety switch to +12V or the start button is hanging. It takes +12V to the solenoid to engage it.

I plugged the Y/G wires that go to the clutch safety switch to each other, as dorkburger suggested, essentially leaving the switch always on. I followed all the wires today and everything seems right in place, though I haven't tested it with a meter yet to see if the issue might be in one of the harnesses, or within the starter switch itself. I did take apart the starter switch today and, though I was surprised at how unguarded everything is in there, it all seems functional and non-touchy.

When I first got the bike, the dash lights worked as intended; now the kickstand, oil, tail/stop, and side stand lights are all light up whenever the key is in the on position. What could this be indicative of?

Hmmmm. Mines an es. I just noticed that yours is an e.
It may be different. Easiest way would be to just follow the wireset out from the switch.

Just in case you're curious, there are a few plugs behind the airbox on the E, but most of the connectors are in the casing behind the headlight.

 

[posplayr]

If you had a. Opt meter much of the mystery would disappear

Sounds like you are still trying to debug without an Opt meter (DVM or volt meter )