1st Gen GSXR upgrade for GS1100ED

[salty_monk]

Jim,

You have it backwards... Cutting coils & adding spacers as I am doing will increase spring rate. Will make my forks a lot harder to compress. Cutting the progressive end will really help with the brake dive too..

Dan

 

[posplayr]

Dan,
OK I guess I got confused thinking you had Progressive springs. You must have the OEM springs which also have a progressive coil to them but much weaker than Progressives. At 14mm (emulator height) of preload on the Progressive springs the forks are very stiff ; even more than on my ED and my weight. They are stiffer than the stock ED forks I had with similar progressive Racetech setup and Bill at 300 even liked the way it handled. I know a guy that had a set for sale if intrested; he quoted me $75 for them.
Jim

 

[cavehamster]

Yes the intent was to keep the wheel centered in the frame and centered relative to the swingarm pivot bolt bosses.



I have a GSXR 1100 street fighter (with USD and 17" wheels) and the look of my GS would never really look stock anymore with USD 17" wheel). That combined with not wanting to lose ground/cornering clearance as well as the ease of 18" v.s. 17" chain and wheel clearance issues I went 3 spoke 88 GSXR 1100 wheels which are the only 3 spoke with 18x4.5". Hard to come by they are. :lol:

I have taken alot of pains to retain the ED look which would be harder with USD's and 17" wheels.

On the mono, it might clear the battery box or might not. I don't know. It is a cleaner look without it trimmed off. Mono shocking is a whole lot more trouble but in the end might be cheaper since the shocks are easier to come by. If I was gonna do mono shock then USD 17" wheels are a natural. There are many interrelated issues that it would be best to sort out which way you wanna go. Right now you probably don't know what you dint know. You need a list to figure out each of the options. A spare frame or a tore down bike helps. :lol:

Gotta go; I plan to be done on mine this weekend.

Thanks for the info, you are right, I am still figuring out what it is I want to figure out!

I took the bike out to the drags last weekend, the rear tire was not hooking up, and I was spinning through the 60 foot traps. Don't want to buy a tire to fit the stocker when I was planning on this swap anyway, so, my schedule is getting moved up

I tore the bike way down last night, yanked the engine and the whole swing arm out, and stuck in my Bandit swingarm to see how it looks.

The monoshock certainly hits the battery box, so I brought it into work today so I can CNC it off.

So, you were able to offset the swinger so you could keep the rear master plunger in the right place? And you really do feel that the shock tabs should be offset as well? I am going to runt he stock shocks for a bit while my bank balance recovers so I can buy some Ohlins, so I might as well start this thing off right. We're only talking about 5 or 6mm offset, right?

I also read that the Bandit arm has the tire offset 4mm to the left in the arm, and not via spacers, is this true? I have not confirmed with direct measurements. A visual comparison with my '80 1100E swinger show that the two swingarms to be almost exactly the same length and width (but not height, hehe).

Lastly, I know it is a lot to ask, but can you post some closeup pictures of the swinger setup, or point me to them?

I'm hoping to be able to get this conversion done this month, but I still gotta source a rear wheel and all the goodies.

What caliper did you go with? Did you keep the brake bar or do something else? I have a buddy who is trying to convince me to go with a bar-less caliper, he's like a little devil on my shoulder...

I appreciate your input!

 

[posplayr]

So, you were able to offset the swinger so you could keep the rear master plunger in the right place? And you really do feel that the shock tabs should be offset as well? I am going to runt he stock shocks for a bit while my bank balance recovers so I can buy some Ohlins, so I might as well start this thing off right. We're only talking about 5 or 6mm offset, right?

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=944934&postcount=33

You are just going to figure out the shock tabs based on what shocks you run. Katman ran into the issue with the Ohlins. I made it worse with the 4mm offset bandit arm.

Here are pics of the swing arm spaced with the plunger installed. The ED brakes arm is different, but similar was done with the EZ which may be the same part as the 80-81 (I dunno U will have to check)

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=938866&postcount=1

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=938987&postcount=8

I also read that the Bandit arm has the tire offset 4mm to the left in the arm, and not via spacers, is this true? I have not confirmed with direct measurements. A visual comparison with my '80 1100E swinger show that the two swingarms to be almost exactly the same length and width (but not height, hehe).

Sorry, at the moment I dont know. Katman was using his measurements to provide the rear wheel spacer dimensions. IIRC he claimed it was also centered, but when I was looking (eye ball) it seemed offset.

The whole issue of determining offsets is a tricky buisness and depends on what arm and wheel you use. Offset needs to be measured with respect to the mounts and perpendicular to the swing arm bolt axis. Katman made a jig to do that. I just used the spacer he setup (well sorta). We went through the measurments and error sensitivieties for a few weeks to sort it out. We did that about 9 months ago so I dont remember all the details. I did do a rear to front wheel alignment today and I have about 5mm of clearance between 530 chain to frame and 530 chain to tire. I'm using 3/8" offset countersproket and as best I could tell I'm out 0.200" out on the chain ; Rear wheel is 4.5x18 with 170/60-18.

What caliper did you go with? Did you keep the brake bar or do something else? I have a buddy who is trying to convince me to go with a bar-less caliper, he's like a little devil on my shoulder...

QUOTE]

I used the under hung 1st gen gixxer parts to go with the 1st gen disk. i like the under hung look but if you wanna be more modern then you can go armless claiper.

As far as the brake control arm, I used a bandit with the 1/2 of one end cut and rewelded to fit the width of the GSXR caliper.

 

[posplayr]

After the Shasta trip, I spent almost the whole weekend getting the ED spiffied back up. Oil change, New pan, stator, oil filter gaskets. Adjusted valves, alot of cleaning (buffed the header with a larger wheel and came out much better), aligned front to rear after adjusting the chain. Still need to re-cut the front fork springs and adjust the carbs. Anyway here are some fresh pics with the fairing on this time and road tested on the 2500 mile trip to Mt Shasta with the GSR gang and to Oregon with Chef.

1983 Red GS1100ED GS1100ED Restore 1st GEN GSXR Conv FINISHED PRODUCT

GS1100ED Slideshow


The pictures below are after the wreck and the bike was repainted closer to OEM Pearl Red color.

 

[posplayr]

OK Since I'm back from the Shasta trip and have my chain well stretched, I cleaned up the bike and decided to do one last check on the wheel to wheel alignment and do a final chain alignment check.

I used a variation of the string method. I figured it out along the way .

So here is what I got from Katman

• Qty 1 - 3/8" 530 counter sprocket
• Qty 1 - Sprocket side rear wheel spacer 25.5 mm = 1.0004”
• Qty 1 – 10.5 mm brake side Bandit pivot spacer
• Qty 1 - 2.0 mm sprocket side Bandit pivot spacer.
• Stock GSXR Gen 1 brake arm

Note with that spacer combination the Bandit arm will be offset 4mm away from the brake master cylinder to make room for the stock ED push rod.

The sprocket side spacer is usually 4

In addition I used:

• Stock GSXR Gen 1 right side wheel spacer
• Modified Bandit Swing arm.

Results:

Chain aligned to 0.200" (countersprocket a NOT OUT FAR ENOUGH in otherwords a 5/8" offset would provide better chain alignment v.s. the 3/8")
Chain to tire clearance 5mm
Chain to upper Frame clearance 5.5 mm
Chain to lower ED foot peg mounts 2mm (this can be ground down easily if it were and issue).


Conclusion, my chain is splitting the available space nearly perfectly, but I have a bit of chain mis alignment. I will try and measure it again when I change the chain. I do have alaser but I could not get the chain master link off and will not till I get a new chain.

This is all pretty tricky business to get right, I wanna thank Rob(Katman), for getting me this far.

EDIT Will update again after doing some more research and measurements.

Right now the chain clearance to tire and frame is very nice (about 5mm each side), although I think there is about 0.080” of misalignment in the chain (rear sprocket is more outboard than the counter sprocket) . This is less than I originally thought because of difficulty measuring the chain. I finally just put a construction level against the back tire under the sprocket and it lines up to within one master link plate. The rear sprocket is too far outboard but no more spacer is available. Not sure how this worked out but doing 0.050-0.080” on the sprocket carrier would align it perfectly (if I was anal)

When I replace my chain, I will try and get a straight edge across the sprockets

 

[posplayr]

A couple more modifications to get things dialed in right. First I found some nice OEM cooler lines for a 85 GS550 which I made work by dropping my oil cooler a little (1.5") by modifying the cracket I already had.

I had to rebend OEM tubing. I did this by clamping the banjo ends into a vice with a pair of leather gloves and used my thumbs to gently bend it into shape with small increments. If you are careful you won't cint the tubing. The good news is I get an OEM line with OEM fittng that would cost an arm and a leg if you could find them.

Here is the new oil filter mount. I'm pretty sure this is also an 550 cooler, but the PO mounted it originally so I'm not sure. There are much cheaper than the 1150 cooler and do a reasonable job at taking the edge off. With teh GSXR forks clerance is pretty tight up fround but I have a full 1/2" to spare at full fork compression.

The OEM lines really cut down on the cost as well as oil leaks while retaining the OEM 1150 cover. I did buy a Earls 13 row cooler but it was going to be problematic geting it to fit (it wont). The 550 cooler is pretty compact 4 1/2 row cooler.

 

[posplayr]

For suspension tuning, I recut my fork springs one more time (about 7mm) so the ride has improved again. Down here in SB, I cant really test the high speed stability but at about 80 mph it was pretty stable. Katman has another thread on steering stabilizers and I have been collecting a few to see if I could make anything work. Turns out that I got a GSXR (??) stabilizer to work off of the ED fairing mount. It just seems to work and doesn't hit either the motor of the fairing.

I will have to relocate my "Dumbo Ears" horns. If I rotate them 90 deg, they will mount to the same place but be ticked under the gas tank. Then the right hand one will not interfere with the stabilizer.

 

[salty_monk]

Like to hear how that works out for you Jim, it's a mod I'm thinking of doing on the 750 at some stage myself...

Does it clamp on the fork leg or use the hole in the lower triple?

Dan

 

[posplayr]

...

Does it clamp on the fork leg or use the hole in the lower triple?

Dan

Dan,
No room for a clamp; used the lower hole but it need to be 8mm. I had to file out the lower hole in the triple as I did not want to disassemble the whole front end again . I'm using a 8mm hardened bolts even though there is a SS bolt currently in the fairing stay mount.

The trick is you need rounded spacers for the ball sockets to rotate. A few hours on the grinder with some new SS 8 mm bolts and I'm good to go. Just a few more tweaks to get the steering range balanced with the stops.

Obviously I want to get the bike stable as I can (no high speed wobbles) without the stabilizer so I'm not masking any issues. Last ride with the further reduced preload was substantially better on the freeway with no apparent loss in handling.

My next plan is to modify my engine guards to pickup some more clearance. More on that later.

When U guys planning on ridding?

Jim

 

[salty_monk]

Would be interested in some extra pics Jim. Thinking I would likely end up doing something quite similar.

Something else to watch out for on Ebay :lol:

Cheers,

Dan

 

[posplayr]

Will get some up tonite

 

[pauly]

Posplayer:

I should have asked this question on this thread but instead I asked over on the custom GS thread.
Where did you get your fairing from, I think it looks great.

Cheers
Paul

 

[posplayr]

Pauly,
Thanks PO had already mounted the fairing; I painted it match and did some adjustments. The PO had opened up the headlamp hole to get a better fit. It is made for 7" v.s. the EZ/ED 8" lamps. The Maier sport faring is a remake of the GPZ1100 fairing albeit with a round headlamp option.

Thanks for the comments. I really like the way ED turned out. I think the whole bike has a stock appearance like it came from the factory that way.

http://www.powersports360.com/eshop...ent=Maier+Gp+Sport+Fairings&utm_campaign=base

 

[posplayr]

Another pic of from the comparision article for GPZ1100 and GS1100EZ

 

[Bad Kaw]

Thanks for the comments. I really like the way ED turned out. I think the whole bike has a stock appearance like it came from the factory that way.

http://www.powersports360.com/eshop...ent=Maier+Gp+Sport+Fairings&utm_campaign=base

Yeah, that's the impressive thing...doesn't look like a 'hack job' with a bunch of crap bolted on. The bike has a very "supposed to be that way" type of look. Well executed!

-KR

 

[posplayr]

Yeah, that's the impressive thing...doesn't look like a 'hack job' with a bunch of crap bolted on. The bike has a very "supposed to be that way" type of look. Well executed!

-KR

Thanks for the complements BadKaw . I would have probably done the USD 17" wheel route as well but there were two pivotal factors that caused me to change my mind.

1.) Ground clearance and the fact that a 4:2:1 GSXR header was the primary means of restoring ground clearance. I looked for a year and could not find one to adapt, even though I did eventually find Yoshi pipe

2.) I have a 86 GSXR 1100 with same conversion already on it. It has the same horsepower as my 1100ED but weighs 100 lbs less and the 17" wheels look like they were made for it.

So I guess I'm into classic conversions 1st Gen Gixxer for the ED and 2nd Gen Gixxer for the Slabbie.

The callenge for the Gixxer is to street fighter it (so I can ride it; the radical riding position just wont do for my bad knees) but not make it look like a Mad Max fighter but still resemble some of the same gixxer color styles. I'm hoping the Ducati fairing blends in as well

I plan to start the Gixxer street fighter conversion back up and get the body parts repainted this fall before the rains start.:lol:

 

[Bad Kaw]

Yeah, I know what you mean about "bad knees"; I don't know your situation, but I teach MMA and I'm on the mat a LOT. A few years ago a sports medicine doctor told me that he was going to replace my knee and told me I could put it off as long as I could take the pain. 6 months ago I started Prolo therapy and 5 weeks from now I'll have my last treatment (6 total) and I'll be all done and have my own knee back, better than ever. (mycodo.com) Just trying to help you out.

GSXR: I LOVE the big single round headlight on your fightered gixxer and I love the suspension mods that you've done to it. Once again: juuuuuust right! I know what you mean about 'riding position' and 'comfort'; all my bikes have to meet that smell test or I just can't ride them. Well, I do have this one bike that I tolerate, but it's a love/hate thing...I'm sure you understand.

GS: I'm just now noticing that the frame is silver. Interesting touch, did you do that to help the silver on the wheels blend for a 'factory' effect? If that wasn't the plan, that's what you pulled off.

On my GS I'm currently going with the conventional fork 17" gixxer suspension conversion due to (1) it was easier b/c I wanted to keep the stock clip-ons of the 1150ES and all I had to do was bore the centers 1mm in radius and (2) I eroneously thought that it'd be cheaper b/c I had all the necessary parts somewhere (I thought). I'm waiting to see if the ES meets my expectations, if it does it gets a permanent slot in the stable and TL/S inverted/wide suspension components. I've never ever driven a GS1150ES; but I've jonesed for one since 1984!!! We shall see, eh?

-KR

 

[posplayr]

Yeah, I know what you mean about "bad knees"; I don't know your situation, but I teach MMA and I'm on the mat a LOT. A few years ago a sports medicine doctor told me that he was going to replace my knee and told me I could put it off as long as I could take the pain. 6 months ago I started Prolo therapy and 5 weeks from now I'll have my last treatment (6 total) and I'll be all done and have my own knee back, better than ever. (mycodo.com) Just trying to help you out.

Hey Glad you found prolothrapy. I did a series 2 years ago and recoveerd mcuh of my mobility in my right knee. At 52 I have advanced arthritis in the knee. I wish I had known of prolotherapy earlier and coudl have gotten injections before the minisus degenrated so far. For me now it is kind of a loosing battle and when I Windsurfed or now Kiteboard I beat it up pretty good. I had the knee replacement discussion with my doc last month. She has already told me to stop the powered windsports

I would suggest you do at least an anunual booster of Prolotharapy to keep the growth strong. My doctor also does a mix of synthetic growth hormone. My knees were giving me no paint up till around 1998 (10 years ago). An then within about 1 year they suddenly started to fall apart.

Besides the knees, I also got injection in the elbows for "tenndinitis" from extended kiting sessions. Got ride of a chronic pain I had had for over a year over night.

http://www.drtom.net/

GSXR: I LOVE the big single round headlight on your fightered gixxer and I love the suspension mods that you've done to it. Once again: juuuuuust right! I know what you mean about 'riding position' and 'comfort'; all my bikes have to meet that smell test or I just can't ride them. Well, I do have this one bike that I tolerate, but it's a love/hate thing...I'm sure you understand.

-KR

Yea gotta love the Big headlamp with the USD forks. The GSXR actually aklready had the 17" wheels and USD forks on it. I have a period braced swingarm though that I plan to use. If no one minds I will start a new thread once I get going again.

GS: I'm just now noticing that the frame is silver. Interesting touch, did you do that to help the silver on the wheels blend for a 'factory' effect? If that wasn't the plan, that's what you pulled off.

-KR

I guess, I did not like the complete blacked out look of the ED. I love the black motor but wanted to set it off a little better. I noticed that teh 1150 frames as well as all of the 1st and 2nd gen GSXR frames are silver so I went that way. I used Por-15 paints but at soem point will get the frame powdercoated. (no that it is all together; go figure)

On my GS I'm currently going with the conventional fork 17" gixxer suspension conversion due to (1) it was easier b/c I wanted to keep the stock clip-ons of the 1150ES and all I had to do was bore the centers 1mm in radius and (2) I eroneously thought that it'd be cheaper b/c I had all the necessary parts somewhere (I thought). I'm waiting to see if the ES meets my expectations, if it does it gets a permanent slot in the stable and TL/S inverted/wide suspension components. I've never ever driven a GS1150ES; but I've jonesed for one since 1984!!! We shall see, eh?

-KR

Yes I can see how the USD really are much closer of a bolt on to an 1150ES ; When you gonna start a project thread? I dont remember seeing it?

 

[Bad Kaw]

COOL that you are already dialed in on prolotherapy...too bad about the miniscus, mine had multiple tears but I'm healing fairly well.

I'll have to check and see if I put a thread on the 1150ES up here...hmmmm. Regardless, it's been long enough that it's probably 10+ pages deep. I took a hard run at getting it done two years ago and got close, but then moved a year ago and in the process re-acquired an old bike that I thought was a carb-clean from running...you know how that goes. The good part is that the reacquired GPz is near completion (set of needles and seats are on the way) and it's bike of the month at KZ1000R.com ( http://kz1000r.com/ ) but the bad news is that all the little ameneties that it needed to actually "go" again sort of drained a very depleted motorcycle 'play' account. So, I need to revisit eBay and generate some funds so that I can finish up on the 1150...the suspension is really the only notable modification to the ES, but I am VERY anxious to get it going...always had a bit of a fixation on GS1150ESs so I'm excited to ride this one. If I didn't post a thread way back I'll start a new one...speaking of which, please be sure to post up a link to your gixxer thread once you start it...I don't actively hunt for those, but would love watching this one!

-KR

PS> Didn't mean to go all green on a blue site!