79' GS1000 problems...

[KEITH KRAUSE]

The 261 0-6 is the needle jet size. Yes, those are the coveted 29mm smoothbores. To avoid fuel starvation, the two float bowl vent lines should be removed when running pod filters. Leave the nipples open, as you have them now.
I don't have enough experience with the 29's to tell you if the main jets are right. You have to test the performance at full throttle to decide that.
Same for any jet needle adjustments, except you test at 1/3 throttle.
From the video you made, I would suspect dirty carbs and ignition/timing needs to be set. The holes in the jets are small, sitting for 6 years is gauranteed varnished/dirty carbs. Probably needs new o-rings throughout.
Try a website regarding the carb jetting for those 29's. You may try Vance and Hines too, they used to sell "pre-jetted" 29's for the GS1000. If they help you with jetting info, please share it here. Or try Sudco, in Los Angeles. They sell some 29 parts.
Clean and rebuild the carbs.
Set the timing, check the spark quality.
Synch the carbs with a vacuum tool.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the help so far guys...I am thinking about getting the Morgan Carbtune II too to sych the carbs, instead of paying someone $100 to do it.


Where are the ports on the 29mm's to hook up the vaccum gauges to?



Also, I made a thread about making a petcock, you guys tell me what you think...

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/viewtopic.php?t=34735

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Buying the vacuum tool and doing the job yourself is smart.
The vacuum levels really need to be set so the difference between the highest and lowest level is about 1/2". Most mechanics won't get them that close.
Look at the head intakes, where the rubber manifolds mount. See the small Allen head screw with the copper washer under it at about 4:00 (right side) and 7:00 (left side). Remove those and thread in the vacuum tool adapter tubes. DON"T over tighten them when you re-install. A few pounds torque is good.

 

[Anonymous]

Buying the vacuum tool and doing the job yourself is smart.
The vacuum levels really need to be set so the difference between the highest and lowest level is about 1/2". Most mechanics won't get them that close.
Look at the head intakes, where the rubber manifolds mount. See the small Allen head screw with the copper washer under it at about 4:00 (right side) and 7:00 (left side). Remove those and thread in the vacuum tool adapter tubes. DON"T over tighten them when you re-install. A few pounds torque is good.

The carbtune tool looks like a good tool. One place quoted me $150 to synch them, while one place only wanted $60. Where do you make the adjustments?

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Buying the vacuum tool and doing the job yourself is smart.
The vacuum levels really need to be set so the difference between the highest and lowest level is about 1/2". Most mechanics won't get them that close.
Look at the head intakes, where the rubber manifolds mount. See the small Allen head screw with the copper washer under it at about 4:00 (right side) and 7:00 (left side). Remove those and thread in the vacuum tool adapter tubes. DON"T over tighten them when you re-install. A few pounds torque is good.

The carbtune tool looks like a good tool. One place quoted me $150 to synch them, while one place only wanted $60. Where do you make the adjustments?

See my last post at Hoomgars topic about his 1000 re-jet and asking for me. I explain the bench/vacuum synch.

 

[Hoomgar]

I just ordered the carbtune II. It's a worthy investment. Like you say, until you pay someone to do it right you have bought the tool!

I ordered the whole kit with the colortune as well. I want it spot on.

http://www.ekmpowershop.com/ekmps/shops/carbtune/index.asp?function=DISPLAYPRODUCT&productid=26

But just the carbtune if that's all you want is only 99.40 USD.

 

[Anonymous]

So I rode itarounda bit today, its not too bad. The idle likes to hang a bit from time to time, then other times it doesnt really want to idle. I have the screws at 1 5/8 turns like Keith suggested. What will happen if I turn them either way? Left (open) does what, right (close) does what?

It still likes to backfire a little, and fire into the carbs a few times too, but is rideable...

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

So I rode itarounda bit today, its not too bad. The idle likes to hang a bit from time to time, then other times it doesnt really want to idle. I have the screws at 1 5/8 turns like Keith suggested. What will happen if I turn them either way? Left (open) does what, right (close) does what?

It still likes to backfire a little, and fire into the carbs a few times too, but is rideable...

So if you're making progress, what work have you done to it?
To adjust the side air screws using the highest rpm method, the bike must idle decent to begin with. Yours sounds too rough. But you can try to see if it helps. With the screws where they are, put the bike on the centerstand and warm it up. The idle should be set to around 1,100 rpm's to begin. Starting with any carb, slowly turn the screw in either direction until the rpm's max. Fine tune the screw. Now adjust the idle back to 1,100 rpm's with the idle adjuster knob. Repeat with the next carb.. Do all four the same way.
Turning this screw in, decreases the air available, or richens the mixture . Turning them out, increases the air available, or leans the mixture.

 

[Anonymous]

Well I decided that I wanted to try to check the points gaps, but when I took the ignition cover off, it was not as described in the book.

This is what the book showed...

This is what mine actually looked like...

Is this some sort of aftermarket ignition or what? I dont see anywhere to adjust anything. If not aftermarket, is it just off a newer bike?

I take it that turningthe plate in the first pic to the left or right retards and and advances the timing, correct?

I am just trying to go through everything. I know its missing some power, I really need to balance the carbs still...

 

[philofab]

Hi, I have a 79 GS 1000 too, your carbs look to be off of a Kawasaki KZ 1000, stock carbs have the idle adjust on the bottom. I'm running the same carbs.

Sounds like you may be having an ignition problem.

Check all your wiring to your coils. My bike has points and one of my points sets has a divit burned in. It runs crappy and wont fire 1 & 4 correctly.

Your ignition is newer CDI or aftermarket (Dyna or Boyer). I don't recognise which.

Are 29MM Smoothbores good? I have been looking into different carbs, mine allways leak out the overflow randomly, and no amount of cleaning will fix it. I also don't like the fact they have no idle/air on the sides. Just pilot/fuel.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I don't know which ignition that is either. But they all adjust basically the same.
From your video, the bike shows classic lean mixture symptoms, with the possibility of poor spark/poor timing added to the problem. I gaurantee you the bike is running lean.
It's difficult to set the timing when the bike is running so badly because the timing marks jump around. Maybe you can rotate the plate and see if the bike runs better? You can make felt marker marks and always return it to where it is if you want. Or, if you can hold the advance mechanism in the advanced position, you can do a static timing check by using the spark plug spark and viewing the timing marks. Just rotate the motor with 19 mm nut and make sure the timing marks line up correctly when the plug fires. Adjust if needed. Then hold the advance in full advance, and check that the advance timing marks line up when the plug fires. A static check is not as accurate as a timing light check with the motor running, but the bike will run decent. I suggest you follow the static check with a timing light check.
What's odd about your ignition is I don't see where you have seperate adjustment for 1/4 and 2/3 cylinders? It does look like the plate's been moved almost all the way in one direction.
If it was my bike, and my time, I would do a complete carb check/clean and rebuild first. Your carbs need service. Also, inspect the manifolds and/or o-rings. Buy new manifold o-rings for sure. Before re-installing, check the currect jetting and get info from other 29 smoothbore owners so you can at least get an idea where you're at. Then I would focus on the ignition and I bet it would be much easier to set, if that ignition unit is working right.

 

[Anonymous]

First off, Keith and everyone else, thanks for sticking with me this far....


I did go ahead and clean the carbs really well the other day, when I pulled them to check the jets again...So they should be decent at this point...

I made a new little clip today of the bike idling and reving just a bit to show the improvement. It does run better, but like I said before, I still think there's power missing...

Here's the vid...Its about 4.2 Mb

http://www.fbodypages.com/joe/gs1000_2.wmv


While I was looking the ingition over yesterday, I decided to follow some wires out, and found this...

That sure doesnt look right, or safe. That wire come from the ignition, and is soldered to the orange/red wire on that plug. Could this part of the conversion to this electrical ignition?

I am going to get a timing light tonight and check the timing on it.

I am going to see about writing V&H an email here in a minute to ask them what jetting they recommend for the setup...


I think if it comes down to it, I am gonne strap my little camera to my helmet and let you guys see how it accelerates and rides. Then maybe I will get a better idea about how it runs...

 

[Anonymous]

I just was checking V&H's site, and came across thisabout their 4 into 1 pipes...

GS1000 PRE '80 ->Remove the stock airbox lid and increase the main jet to a 117.5 or 120. Adjust
fuel screws one to two turns from fully seated.

So I do have 120's in there, so the jettingshould be correct I guess....?

 

[first timer]

hey guys sorry i slipped off, i just picked this post back up, first thing to say is congrats on the 29 mm smoothbore carbs, theses are high performance carbs and very expensive if you find a set on ebay, i was lucky as well and got a bike with a set, let me share the info i have found for theses carbs.

look at the bottom table, that should be the base settings to set your carbs up to, follow the gs1000 row,

here is a link to a pdf copy of a carb tune book that has the 29mm in it, that i had scanned a while back

http://www.grimp.net/ryan/carbs/GSR_Mikuni_1979.1988_carb_Guide.pdf

this is a 9 mg file and right click save as and download it that way or it will lock your computer.


One thing i notice is the air filters your using, i feel these emgo/prosport brand pod filters are CRAP! i believe in my book they recomend K and N brand filters, i would recomend these as well. Thats what i will be running on my 1000 with 29mm smoothies, i have tried these emgo type fitlers you have on my rejetted 550 and found they restrict more air flow then the k and n's. (emgos reduce the size of the carb mouths intake) this will baddly lean out a carb at the top end that wants to flow more fuel and isn't allowed because the filters are choking them. i would defitly go with the recomend type of k and n's (RC-1070) and not some cheap non-specfic carb fitler. like i said these are high performance carbs that were speciflly used on 78/79 1000 bikes, so if you go with all the setting i have posted then you bike should run pretty damn good with out fine tunning.

double check your stuff to this info posted then get back to us so we can help you tune. At this moment i can't say how well these settings work since my bike's still unfinished but it does fire up and rev's high with the 29 sb's untuned, shims outta wack and timing no set yet. so think you will be very happy once it gets sorted out. and i am running the basic setting recomend in this info.

also try running the biek with out the filter you have and see how that works.


oh yeah don't worry about your 4 into 1, those carbs will be able to handel that pipe no problem, and the v and h website doesn't apply to the stuff you have so don't even worry about what they say, these 29's are designed to run rich with no air box, no filter, or with velocity stacks, or high flow pods and a high flow minimal restriction 4 into 1 exhaust

please disregaurd any info you have found that deals with OEM carbs that info doesn't even come close to working out with the carbs you have.

it's funny my bike does the same thing right now will only run with about 1/4 choke when its warm, if i try to kill the choke even at high rpms it will still stall out.

and yes choke lever pulled up is choke on, pushed down is choke off.

-ryan

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

ryan, just wondering...I mentioned this to you a long time ago but you never replied: I could swear the 29's for Suzuki's and Kawa's need a 1.5 throttle valve cutaway. Not 2.0 Honda uses the 2.0.(?) My V&H mechanic agreed with me. I also saw some 29's on E-bay jetted for Suzuki and the seller specifically mentioned the cutaways were 1.5. So I don't know what to think of the website you showed listing the 2.0 slides used for Suzuki's. :? Have you asked them to verify this??
The jetting transition from the pilot circuit to the needle circuit would be terrible with the wrong slide.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

JxxxOxxxE, yes that mess of wiring is related to the aftermarket ignition. Looks shabby to me. I would completely check/clean or replace the connections everywhere.
Disregard any jetting info that's related to the stock carbs.
Compare your jetting set up to the chart ryan provided. I wouldn't have a better guess where to start. I still question the cutaway size though.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

From the sound of your latest video, it does sound weak and lacking power. To tell you the truth, it sounds like a cylinder may be coming and going. The idle fluctuates. Could be spark, could be fuel related. Could be compression related???
It doesn't sound obviously lean as before.
If that wiring harness shot is any indication of the rest of the bikes condition, it could be anything or an accumulation of things.
I have to stress, in the interest of less frustration and less work, a bike in this condition needs a total basic maintenance go over. If you skip any little thing, whatever you do after that can/will be useless in troubleshooting. I know you've done some things, but it's best to be thorough and do things in order and completely. We're not sure exactly what you've done. We request/suggest something, and you don't come back with complete info. For example, you say you cleaned the carbs, but don't tell us about any o-ring condition, float level check, etc. Any little thing can cause the problem. We need all the info as you progress. This helps us "be there" with you. To keep us all up to date, a list of things you've done might help. We can then provide more info to help you.
I gotta get to work now, but a quick thought about all four cylinders firing...when you start the bike up, have you tried removing a plug at a time to see if it effects rpm? What is the quality of the spark? At VERY FIRST start up, can you feel equal heat at all four pipes? Talk to you later.

 

[first timer]

hi Keith, i pulled that chart from sudco, so i just assumed they knew what they were talking about, for the life of me i can't remember what size cutaways i have in the bike now too, i think it was 1.5 cause i rember saying oh man now i need to shell out 75 bucks 4 times for new cutaways. i won't be able to check the size of them for while i have a bunch of other maintiance to do on the bike right now before i can worry about tuning the bike.

i just dug through my sudco manel they has some settings listed for a gs 1100 w/ 29's and that bike is running 1.5 cutaways 140 mains and 20 pilot jets everything elese matchs the the chart above. so maybe sudco just messed up, maybe our friend here can tell us what cutaways he has.

i was going over some of my notes on what i wrote down about my carbs and my mains are a little bigger 117.5 the pilots are teh same (25) and the needle jet is the same (0.6), i wasn't able to get the air jets out so i don't know what size they are i just cleaned them real good and made sure carb spray shot out other holes when i sprayed in there.

Kieth would you mind giving sudco a call about these carbs and the cutaway, you seem a little more competent in how carbs work.

i figured i would give my bike a try when it is all fixed up and see how the carbs are working, i was told they worked real good on my bike back in the day, and i don't think anyone touched them consideing the amout of gunk and dirt in them before i cleaned them.

i hope this helps.

maybe sooner or later we can set up a 29mm smooth bore setting in the oem carbs setting in letters to the editor.


-ryan

 

[Detman101]

First off, Keith and everyone else, thanks for sticking with me this far....



While I was looking the ingition over yesterday, I decided to follow some wires out, and found this...

That sure doesnt look right, or safe. That wire come from the ignition, and is soldered to the orange/red wire on that plug. Could this part of the conversion to this electrical ignition?

Yikes, I'd wrap that up with some electrical tape ASAP!
8O

Dm of mD

 

[rek]

Carb tune

Carb tune

there is a very interesting item in the (i know, i know) beemer air head
site about making your own carb tune tool for 4 bucks! i haven't tried it yet
(just married off a daughter) but i will. what have i got to lose besides 4 bucks. here is the link if you want to try it.

http://www.airheads.org/index.php?Technical Tips+$4 Carburetor Synchronizer


2 gs1000, parts aquisition in progress.