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'81 GS650G not starting anymore??

  • Thread starter Thread starter ssanderson111
  • Start date Start date
S

ssanderson111

Guest
I started a thread in another forum, but I think this will get more responses. I need help!

My '81 650 G has been running great for the past year that I've owned it until a few days ago. I recently repainted it and since doing so, it doesn't start anymore.

The starter turns and turns and it sounds like the engine is almost starting, but it won't quite start. I can pop start it sometimes, in which case it only stays running if I keep the choke all the way out, runs for a few minutes, then dies. It has an old, dry feeling air filter with no cover on the air box. New battery. No visible leaks.

Any ideas??? Please help!
 
Did you take the cover off the air box when you painted it? Everything must be in place and sealed on the exhaust side and the intake side for it to run right.:D

Brian
 
I read your other post and I don't have any quick fix for you. My first thought is that you need to check all your electrical grounds and connections. Clean connectors till shinney and coat dialectric grease. I would get the right battery for the bike with the poles on the proper side. Did you reinstall the ground wire that connects to the battery box, from the harness and to the neg pole? Did you repaint battery box? Make sure you have good grounds. Posplayer has some excellent threads on adding some grounds and checking electrical charging system.

It is often recomended here that the factory air box must be all there, and air tight. Seal the lid how ever you have to. Weather stripping, tape whatever.

Use Steve's list . Have a manual, wireing diagram? Have a ohm/volt meter? Check where you have power and don't with a meter. Work through the bike till you find a rhyme or reason to it.

The 650g is a nice bike. I have one. Good luck.

Charlie G.

Charlie G
 
Not sure it would stop it from running, but the airbox lid needs to be on fo rit to run properly. Also, the filter needs to be oiled. You can use 10w40 if you don't want to get the actual air filter oil (got mine from the dealer).

if you don't have the complete airbox, I'd suggest looking for one (easier than trying to swtich to pods and getting it to run right IMO....).
 
Did you take the tank off when it was painted? If so did you hook the vacuum line back to the petcock? Do you have good fuel flow from the petcock? Could you have pinched or unplugged any wires when you reinstalled the tank?
You could always take it to a dealer.
 
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Hi,

If you don't know the bike's maintenance history, then you must create one. The "mega-welcome" has a couple of maintenance lists which must be followed in order to create a solid baseline for further troubleshooting. Let's get started.

I just stopped by to welcome you to the forum in my own, special way.
big_hi.gif


If there's anything you'd like to know about the Suzuki GS model bikes, and most others actually, you've come to the right place. There's a lot of knowledge and experience here in the community. Come on in and let me say "HOoooowwwDY!"....:)

Here is your very own magical, mystical, mythical, mind-expanding "mega-welcome". Please take notice of the "Top 10 Common Issues", the Carb Rebuild Series, and the Stator Papers. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...

Please click here for your mega-welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike! :D

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
the fact that you have to use the choke to keep it running says you have clogged pilot jets in the carbs. pull them, clean all jets, do a valve clearance check and adjust as needed. believe me, poorly adjusted valves WILL make a bike near impossible to keep running.
 
Wow, thanks for the responses guys! I REALLY appreciate your help.

I don't have the cover for the air box. I did repaint the battery box because it was rusting some...I've checked, double checked, and triple checked that all wires are not pinched, kinked, disconnected, and that everything is grounded. I downloaded the manual from basscliff and have tried to follow the wiring diagram.

I DID take the tank off when I repainted everything. I've tried to start the bike several times with the vacuum line connected and disconnected. I vaguely remember the vacuum line NOT being connected when I first took the tank off to paint it. I'm pretty sure I didn't pinch anything when I put the tank back on.

As far as Steve's list is concerned......I can clean the electrical connections no problem. However, I've never cleaned carbs and I don't even know what it means to adjust the valves. This is my first bike and I'm a poor student. Haha. But I'm willing to learn as long as things don't get TOO messy. I don't really have a lot of space to take things apart without putting them back together the same day, especially if it's something messy or smelly(my wife's pregnant and EXTREMELY sensitive to pretty much everything) : )

I could spend hours on here looking for info on how to adjust valves....any suggestions on where to look would be much appreciated. Also, where do I get all the o-rings for the vent "T", fuel tubes, and fuel inlet needle valve seats? What about the rubber pilot jet plug? Gasket on fuel bowl drain screw? Best place to get aerosol carb cleaner and "dip"?
 
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Update: The vacuum line is now reconnected. The engine finally turned over, but only ran with the choke all the way out. It wouldn't take any throttle, and died after running for only 3 minutes.
 
Time to go to school Son?

Time to go to school Son?

After you've learned the basics about gasoline engines, it'll be piece of cake for you to understand this problem. Learn it or loose it.

Concept: It needs the choke all the way out because it's getting too much air.

From all that gas pouring into the engine, the plugs are probably fouled up.
With the air box lid gone, there's too much air flow so the carbs don't have enough vacuum to suck gas and provide the perfect ratio of air to gas.
Same with a vacuum line off.

Your bike's maintenance has been neglected for some time so you have to do it all yourself and bring it up to date. (Bummer!)
People who don't know or want to know about maintenance, are better off buying a new bike and having service techs do all the work.

Best O' Luck!
Bill
 
The original post,
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=168794
helps explain some concerns.

From your description, it seems to me that you may have a combination of problems that is adding up to a non start.

First, what battery did you buy? Since you had to change the wire positions, and wiggle the connection tells me that you have a poor connection to battery. Make sure that the bolt is tight on battery. Secondly, after filling battery with acid, they generally will require a charge to bring up to full potential. Without a fully charged battery, the motor may crank over but not generate enough spark to fire.

In order to run properly, the carbs need to be clean and in your case, a proper air filter and airbox cover is needed. It may start and run on choke but will die since it is getting too much air. I understand your a student, improvise a cover from cardboard and tape it to airbox. The outer cover on a 650G is fully closed, no air get in through it. Take a piece and fit it over box, you should be fine. Do this to get it running, I may have an extra cover lying around.

Finally, some regular maintenance will aid in keeping motorcycle running correctly. In the service manual you have downloaded, look up the procedure for adjusting valve clearance. It may seem daunting, but it is important for health of motor.

Please ask questions, we can help. Search also.
 
ssanderson111 said:
As far as Steve's list is concerned......I can clean the electrical connections no problem. However, I've never cleaned carbs and I don't even know what it means to adjust the valves. This is my first bike and I'm a poor student. Haha. But I'm willing to learn as long as things don't get TOO messy. I don't really have a lot of space to take things apart without putting them back together the same day, especially if it's something messy or smelly(my wife's pregnant and EXTREMELY sensitive to pretty much everything) : )

I could spend hours on here looking for info on how to adjust valves....any suggestions on where to look would be much appreciated. Also, where do I get all the o-rings for the vent "T", fuel tubes, and fuel inlet needle valve seats? What about the rubber pilot jet plug? Gasket on fuel bowl drain screw? Best place to get aerosol carb cleaner and "dip"?
Click to expand...

Go up to BassCliff's post. He has two links to his website, which should have a workshop manual for your bike and tutorials for all the maintenance you need.

As a guess, is that vacuum line connected to the correct port?
 
An engine needs three things to run: fuel, air, and spark. Air doesn't seem to be much of an issue, although whether it's in the right proportions is in doubt. Has anyone addressed fuel quantity/quality, other than the vacuum line? Is there good fuel flow with the petcock switch in the 'prime' position? My suggestion would be to drain the tank, remove the petcock and check both for debris and restrictions. Once that's known-good, refill with fresh fuel. Follow by removing the spark plugs and checking condition. If needed, replace them (checking gap before installing) or clean, file, and regap existing plugs. In either case, check spark before reinstalling plugs and be sure to put a smear of anti-seize on the threads before putting them back in the engine.

Good luck!
 
I got the battery at walmart as a replacement for the old battery, which was also from walmart (PO installed the old battery). I charged the battery after filling with acid.

I'll work on rigging something up to seal the front of the airbox. I will get new plugs, set the gap, and install them asap.

The vacuum line is for sure connected to the correct port.

I had the petcock off recently to paint the tank. I did my best to clean it up without taking it apart. Also, while the tank was off, I kreemed the inside to take care of some surface rust. The mesh/plastic filter has turned orange(from the rust I'm guessing), and isn't in incredible shape. Could the Kreem lining have anything to do with what's going on? I followed the instructions pretty carefully and allowed the tank liner to dry for over a week. How might I check the fuel flow from the petcock?

I plan to clean the carbs and replace all the o-rings in the boots, but it may take me a couple weeks to get to it. Adjusting the valves is going to take some time for me since it's a brand new concept, but hopefully I'll get to it around the same time as the carbs. Any ideas on where to get all the o-rings for inner carb parts? I've already found the link to get the o-rings for the boots.
 
Cycleorings.com will have your carb orings as well and you really need to do the valve adjustment at the same time in order to ensure you get them synced correctly. Get yourself a set of metric feeler gauges and go look at Basscliff's site again as it contains a good set of directions to do it.

As far as testing fuel flow, put your fuel hose on the petcock and into a container, turn the petcock to prime and make sure that fuel flows. After that, you'll need a vacuum source (your bike) to test the on and reserve. However, I'm wondering if you don't have some junk in there so if it doesn't flow on Prime I'd take it back off and make sure something's not clogging it.
 
You did say it was "running great", till the painting and playing with tank/petcock. Fiddling with petcock and kreeming tank has altered the gas flow to carbs ( restricting it). I wouldn't worry about valves, orings until you know the petcock is doing its job. After all, it was "running great".
But please, get filter and some kind of airbox cover. The cover holds the filter in position.
 
New Problem! : (

So I decided to take the easiest pieces of advice first. I took the tank off and removed/cleaned the petcock. I got some rusty looking gas out of it....

Next, I installed the new airfilter and closed off the airbox.

Last, I thought to myself, "if there's rusty fuel in the petcock, maybe there's rusty fuel in the float bowls?" So I pulled the drain screws on all 4 carbs and let the gas run out(tank was off at this point). Sure enough, rusty gas! No big chunks...just powder mixed in with the gas, or it looked that way anyhow.

Soooooo, I put the screws back in, put the tank back on, put some gas in it...........low and behold.............started right up. No problems idling. Let it idle for a few minutes and rode it about a half mile. Ran fine. Gave it 20 minutes to sit. Went back out around the same half mile. Still ran fine! So I decided to take it up the road. I decided to pick the most uphill route incase something went wrong. Unfortunately, I choose correctly. I started out slow....but it seemed to be back to normal, plus some! It felt quicker/more responsive than ever. I got it up to about 70 and it felt great. Then I decided(probably a dumb decision) to hot rod it a little and see how it felt. I got up to around 75-80 in third and then it felt like the throttle went limp and the RPM's shot up to 10500-11000! I pulled in the clutch lever and hit the kill switch asap and pulled over. With the bike off, I twisted the throttle and it felt kind of loose. I tried to start the bike and it wouldn't start. The starter would turn the engine, but it woudln't come close to starting. I pushed the bike up a hill and pop started it on the way back down. Started right up, no throttle, RPM's shot through the roof again. Stopped/turned the bike off. Hit the start button, started right up, RPM's through the roof. Pushed the bike a mile back home, which wasn't as downhill as I was hoping. Is the throttle stuck? What happened?
 
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Hi,

My first guess would be that one of more of your carbs have a butterfly valve and/or slide stuck open. Check the cable and linkage. You'll find a lot of information, with pictures, on my website. Have a look.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
"What happened?"

Gee, maybe you are a bit impatient. 70 mph in third, etc. I didn't think a 650 would pull 10k rpm- I like learning new stuff!
As Basscliff said, check cable for hangup. Pull gastank and check that no carb throttle plate is sticking or cable is frozen . Fix this ASAP as you do not want it to happen again EVER. While you're at it, clean tank and petcock again, since it's unlikely you got all the crap out.
Definitely head to Basscliff's site for mandatory maintenance tips for folks who like to push the limits.
 
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