82-83 GS1100 Top End Oiler Install

[posplayr]

Ok here is how I did it and retains all of my idiot light and the oil temperature sensor. Untested but I think it should work.

I got a Ward top end oiler from Schnitz after watching top end oilers go for near new prices on ebay. If you are going to get one you will need to deal with your oil sensor plate. There is a mechanical pressure sensor for your idiot light, and an adhoch recasting to accommodate a oil temperature sensor apparently unique to the 82-83 1100's. I

I know there is a member here that makes custom sensor plates and you can have one of those made, but I took a different route and will share as this is a little cheaper.

In the picture you see the the Ward plate that would have you loose both idiot light and oils temp sender. I has the idea to simply use a brass fitting to tee off for the oil T (the blue anodized thing), but the problems is that the temp sender is so long it blocks any standard brass tee's or other 90 degree fittings.

Solution make a new brass T that is elongated. You can get a machine shop to do this or I used by drill press as a milling machine and made the little critter.

You can play around with orientation, but I was going for low profile and did not want any carburetor interference so I chose what you see in the pictures.

Here is the close up of the install. It has to have to the T installed last (after 1/4 turn of the fitting ); I guess now that I look at it I could have gotten rid of the T using a couple of nipples coming off the sides and a slightly larger block.

This is a pretty low profile and there is a little bit of a hoop on the right had side so I can still see the gauge without the oiler line blocking it.

Posplayr

 

[first timer]

You might want to double check your setup, it looks like you plumbed your lines over the oil return port of the oil take off. The oil output port should be where the pressure sensor goes. Take a look at your take off plate that came with your oiller kit. The take off port on that is centered where the pressure sensor would be. I am not sure how your plates are set up but there should be some sort of dam in the oiller kit plate that diverts the oil through the output port and then into the engine via top end or back to the return port above the temp sensor.

At least that is how my 550 and 1000 (both 8v) are set up for their coolers. You may want to take the lines off disconect the spark plugs and spin the motor a few times to see if oil is pumping through the set you have and if it has enough pressure.

 

[posplayr]

Double check on oiler

Double check on oiler

8-[

Well I can NOT check it right now as the motor is out of the bike for a few weeks. I did check the oil path schematic in the manual and it appears as the oil comes from the pump directly (up) under center, but then flows both forward and backward horizontally. The oil return to the pump is through the pickup in the sump (No??). The front path goes through the cylinders to also get the the cams. The rearward flow goes else where but it appears as if there should be pressure under either end of the cover.

It appear as if there is a very weak (1 lbs) spring on the idiot light sensor (in the center) and once past that the oil flows both ways and so I would think I will see pressure to my tee. I am using the stock hole in the plate where the oil temp sensor goes(which I'm assuming see pump high side only dropped getting past the idiot light sensor). It is possible this only sees return pressure but from the configuration I think this is the high pressure side of the pump.

I'll check again and obviously I will check the pressure with the engine running to make sure it is doing something.

Any comments welcome if I'm doing something dumb. I'll check the manual one more time.

Posplayr

Followup:
OK I rechecked the Lubrication Schematic in the manual and it still looks like the entire area below the cover is pressurized with the high side of the pump. The only drop is the parallel path of the oil filter and a bypass?? (Is this what we block on the 1150 oil cooler conversion???)

There is nothing special about the center except that the round recess is required to generate pressure to push the mechanical idiot light switch out of the way. Once past the switch and under the plate there should be the full available pressure as this is what feeds the Main Gallery (going forward) and the transmission going back.

Here is the manual

Here is what it looks like looking down into the block

This is the back of the covers. No magic here. The oil just seems to come from the large center hole which comes from the oil filter and distributes to the holes fore and aft.

 

[posplayr]

last pic on the backs of the covers

last pic on the backs of the covers

 

[Nessism]

Based on the info provided, it seems that the pressure should be the same all accross the back side of the plate. Given that, how is it that some of the oil cooler adaptors both pick up and return to this same point? Seems to me that there wouldn't be any flow since the pressure would be equal?

 

[robertob]

Based on the info provided, it seems that the pressure should be the same all accross the back side of the plate. Given that, how is it that some of the oil cooler adaptors both pick up and return to this same point? Seems to me that there wouldn't be any flow since the pressure would be equal?

The oil cooler adapters that do this intercept the oil inlet up the center and seal it off to the pressure sender and the output port for the cooler flow. Then the return flow pressurizes the well and two oil drillings. So 100% of the oil flow goes through the cooler.

I have mine set up to divert a portion of the oil flow to the cooler and then to the filter housing/sump via gravity. But I think the full flow method might be a little better.

 

[posplayr]

That explains a lot

That explains a lot

Seems like it would be a trick to get an oil cooler and top end oiler on one of teh older bikes (and do it cleanly) :-s.

So the one last mystery (from the flow chart in the manual) for me at least is how is that parallel path "restrictor" (across the filter )related to the 82-83 GS1100 / 84-85 GS1150 oil filter covers and the oil cooler outlet/inlets on either side? An is not related, what is it for?

In order to install a functioning oil cooler on the GS1100E, you have to plug off the right side oil port in order to force oil out to the cooler (somthing my PO #2 did not do when installing the cooler on my GS1100E some time back).

Posplayr

 

[rosco15]

Looks good. I run one on my dragbike. I go even a step further and block the oil passages that lead up thru the block to the head. Seems like it should work just fine.

 

[robertob]

So the one last mystery (from the flow chart in the manual) for me at least is how is that parallel path "restrictor" (across the filter )related to the 82-83 GS1100 / 84-85 GS1150 oil filter covers and the oil cooler outlet/inlets on either side? An is not related, what is it for?

In order to install a functioning oil cooler on the GS1100E, you have to plug off the right side oil port in order to force oil out to the cooler (somthing my PO #2 did not do when installing the cooler on my GS1100E some time back).

Posplayr

Not having one of these bikes I can't say for sure but from a quick look in the manual it looks like the restrictor is there to create a pressure differential across the oil cooler - the pressure is higher on the IN side of the restrictor and lower on the OUT side of the restrictor. Since the cooler & restrictor are in parallel the cooler gets more flow...

no cooler oil circuit:
pickup > pump > filter > oil channel

cooler oil circuit:
pickup > pump > restrictor AND cooler > filter

 

[posplayr]

Robertob

Robertob

Well,
I guess that makes sense but leaves some lingering questions. See the attached pdf that explains the various options that I see. If the engine is properly engineered then the manual is wrong as I show in option #3.

http://www.posplayr.100megsfree3.com/GS1100E/8283_gs1100E_oilcooler.pdf

Posplayr

P.S. One last question: Why do some people mount their coolers with the fittings upside down? Is this just for clearance from the exhaust?

 

[Guest]

Well,
I guess that makes sense but leaves some lingering questions. See the attached pdf that explains the various options that I see. If the engine is properly engineered then the manual is wrong as I show in option #3.

http://www.posplayr.100megsfree3.com/GS1100E/8283_gs1100E_oilcooler.pdf

Posplayr

P.S. One last question: Why do some people mount their coolers with the fittings upside down? Is this just for clearance from the exhaust?

I mounted mine so it fills from the top. I do this so that the oil left in the cooler doesn't run back down into the engine when its off. That way when I check the oil level through the sight glass the level it is where you would expect to be when its full (filling 3/4 of the site glass).

Some folks that fill from the bottom put extra oil in the bike to compensate for the cooler's capacity. It makes it difficult to check the level accurately cause the level will be above the window.

It doesn't really make that much difference either way. It's a little more difficult for me when I change my oil cause I have to take the cooler off and empty it as part of the process. Its also more expensive to buy the annodized 270 degree hose fittings but they do look cool.

 

[posplayr]

isleoman

isleoman

Thanks for those comments. I think it was pics of your with the inverted mounting which finally occured to me. Your bike looks to be the 1982 GS1100EZ Nice and shiney; hope mine looks that way soon.

I recently got a vintage magazine reviewing the 1984 GS1150 and they were contrasting various parts to the older GS1100E. One item mentioned was an increased sump capacity. I see the oil pans advertized on ebay as 1100/1150 (although one should not go by that) assuming they are the same, but are there actually case differences to account for the increased capacity or is the site glass located higher on the clutch cover?

TIA

Posplayr

 

[Guest]

I mounted mine so it fills from the top. I do this so that the oil left in the cooler doesn't run back down into the engine when its off. That way when I check the oil level through the sight glass the level it is where you would expect to be when its full (filling 3/4 of the site glass).

Some folks that fill from the bottom put extra oil in the bike to compensate for the cooler's capacity. It makes it difficult to check the level accurately cause the level will be above the window.

It doesn't really make that much difference either way. It's a little more difficult for me when I change my oil cause I have to take the cooler off and empty it as part of the process. Its also more expensive to buy the annodized 270 degree hose fittings but they do look cool. ] Quote.

Isleoman, I have wondered about this, since I mounted the 1150 cooler (stock method, with fittings on the bottom). Have you ever measured the rough vol. of the cooler when emptying the oil? Just curious as to how much the cooler and lines held.
BTW, I had your modded bike in mind when commenting in another thread about the GS1100 being better looking than the new Honda retro-styled CB1100F.

Tony.

 

[robertob]

Well,
I guess that makes sense but leaves some lingering questions. See the attached pdf that explains the various options that I see. If the engine is properly engineered then the manual is wrong as I show in option #3.

http://www.posplayr.100megsfree3.com/GS1100E/8283_gs1100E_oilcooler.pdf

I think your "diagram 3" is the correct one for the 1150 oil cooler. I don't have one of those manuals handy to check though. The "block" is the one above? Because that's after the filter but before the gallery.

 

[posplayr]

robertob

robertob

This is what the manual says. I drew my drawing similar to from the pickup to the Main Gallery

Either the bypass is for something else and the banjo connection input/outputs are not shown or it is wrong. As long as the oil cooler feeds the filter all is well. I will recheck the inside of the oil filter cavity but I think option #3 is how it is. The pump is sacrificial as it only benefits from the sump pickup screen.

Posplayr

 

[robertob]

This is what the manual says. I drew my drawing similar to from the pickup to the Main Gallery




Either the bypass is for something else and the banjo connection input/outputs are not shown or it is wrong. As long as the oil cooler feeds the filter all is well. I will recheck the inside of the oil filter cavity but I think option #3 is how it is. The pump is sacrificial as it only benefits from the sump pickup screen.

Posplayr

OK - my manual has the same diagram. The "bypass" is the spring and stuff that allows oil to go around the filter if it gets too full (becomes too restrictive). The banjo bolts and restrictor are not in that diagram.

 

[posplayr]

OK that now makes sense

OK that now makes sense

Option #1 is then the correct one except the restrictor is immediately in parallel to the filter.

Posplayr

 

[robertob]

I think so: Pump > cooler > filter

 

[Nessism]

Sorry to dig this thread up but have a question about plumbing an oil cooler...

The oil pressure sensor adapter plate on my '82 850 has an un-tapped fitting on the back side of the plate. It would be easy to drill/tap this hole and screw in a take off fitting to feed oil into an oil cooler. I'm guessing that the return could go into the oil filter cover plate (similar to Rob's bike).

What I'd really like to do though is come up with some sort of fitting that could be screwed into the oil filter adapter plate, through the pressure sensor hole, to grab the oil straight from the oil galley line and send full flow over to a cooler. In that case I'm thinking the angled fitting on the adapter plate could be used for the oil return.

The oil pressure fitting seems to be threaded 20M x 1.5 - not a common thread size. Does anyone have a suggestion where I could get a fitting of some sort that would allow me to plumb this mess? Or maybe I'm just spinning my wheels?

 

[robertob]

Earl's might have something - I think there are some VW or Audi fuel lines with a similar fitting but I could be wrong.

If you have a lathe you could always turn a 20x1.5 ring and then thread it internally for NPT, but I think you're making it more complicated than it has to be. One problem with that idea is that the adapter would have to be long enough to go down and seal against the oil inlet that the light switch seats on in order to use the boss for a return.

Personally I'd just tap that boss for 1/8 NPT and set it up like mine is. OR, if you really want 100% of the oil to go through the cooler buy the adapter plate.

I've even got an old Lockhart cooler if you need one, but you'll have to come up with your own brackets.