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A month of work wasted

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gonzo
  • Start date Start date
G

Gonzo

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I just came back out to my mom's to check the new valve clearances on my bike after letting it sit for day only to open up the cover and find my tolerances worse than before. I swear I had calculated and measured everything about 8 squillion times, but apparently nothing is right now. :mad: On top of that, the oil level had caught my eye when I first walked in. Well, I got some oil on my finger while check those fubar clearances and guess what? GAS. My whole damn oil supply is contaminated now. :( I have no idea how this day could get any worse.

So now I have the carbs off, AGAIN, going to check for stuck floats and clogged overflow ports. There were trace amounts of gas in the overflow hoses, but nothing on the ground. I haven't actually cracked the bowls off yet (I'm far to angry to be trusted wrenching on them right now. I swear I nearly took a bat to the bike) so I don't know if it's a stuck float or what. I've read enough other threads to question the petcock, but as the tank is sitting there is no leaks of any kinds. Is that a good sign or is it not a sign at all? Would a bad petcock show bad only with the vacc line pulling or would it pee all over just sitting like that?

I'm not exactly sure what I would be looking for here. I have an idea of things to check, but I'm just so furious right now that I'm afraid I might be looking at the wrong things. HALP!

Just a quick note, I took it for a ride the other night after I put the new shims in and things seemed fine. No smoke, no explosions or screeching grinding terrible sounds. Obviously something is bad though or my oil and valves would be good and this thread wouldn't exist.
 
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Can't help on why your valves would be out of adjustment, however as for the fuel tap, I'm pretty sure if it's failing, then it won't be leaking fuel externally, but it will be leaking internally to your number 2 carb. I think I got that right... so if I was you I'd be looking at number 2 to start with... I'm hoping a 4 cylinder guru can chime in here...
 
Having been on fire a few times, I can think of a lot of ways your day could be worse.

Tear your carburetors apart and make sure the floats and needles are working properly and that your overflow tubes are not pinched or anything.

As for your tolerances...it happens. You just have to do it again.
 
Did the clearances get larger?

try pushing down on the shim with a stick in order to squish out the excess oil between bucket and shim before you measured the clearances. either that, or did you turn the engine over a few times then remeasure the clearances before buttoning it up?
 
Gas in oil = leaky petcock

See if there's any gas in the vacuum line to #3 (that's #3,Pete) carb, or replace vacuum line with clear hose to check.

Don't bother with the carbs as yet

did you get Steve's spreadsheet for your valves?

The bike will run OK with tight clearances, better with proper ones. Do you think it's your feeler gauge?
 
Yeah Rusty the clearances got wider, but I actually ran the engine down the road a few miles, so they are in the buckets. I'm starting to question if I got the right shims. I can't imagine my math is sooooooooo bad that I would screw up simple math, but I wouldn't put it past me.

T, I just sent Steve a request for the spread sheet. I'll check my lines and get some clear line. Right now I have solid black on there so I will definitly do that. Nothing came dripping out as I disconnected the lines, but it has been a day or so, so maybe it evaporated. Idk. Thanks for the input so far guys, I really appreciate it.

Oh, I don't believe it's my feelers. I made double/triple sure I was only using one and didn't two stuck together. I made sure again after I started scratching my head.
 
Did you happen to have the petcock set on "Prime?"
That, will flood the crankcase.

Daniel
 
You dis replace the carb o-ring yes.
No petcock leak can get past anything but the vaccuum tube.
 
Yeah I got the kit from Mr. Barr and ran through that gauntlet.

I'll check them feelers out Vet. Mine only go as small as .038 and on the high end jump from .07ish up to over .1

I'm heading back out to check all these things that I can. I needed to take a break and chill out before I wrecked the ol' girl out of frustration. Ty again all.
 
Gonzo,

When changing a shim, you need to depress the shim so that the extra oil between the bucket and shim squeezes out, then measure the clearance. when you finish adjusting the clearances, turn the engine over a few times with a wrench on the crankshaft and recheck your measurements.
 
Here's my petcock explanation page: http://www.cycleorings.com/petcock.html


(I'm still finding flaws with it, but it covers the basics).

There's also an 'overflowing carbs' spiel that's often attributed to BWRinger, but is actually one of mine... :clap: ; perhaps someone could post it, since I'm using my laptop right now and it doesn't have that text file on it.

Yep, this stuff can get pretty frustrating. No doubt about it. At least you haven't harmed anything, like snapped off a bolt in the head; a calamity like that can really get discouraging, but it's unfortunately part of the 'charm' of owning a motorcycle that dates to the Carter administration. Most of us think that, on average, the headaches are outweighed by the enjoyment of owning & riding these creatures.

Your problems here are really pretty tame, and quite common to this age of UJM. A sensible step-by-step approach is the best remedy.
 
You ran the bike and then checked the measurements? Was the bike cold? I mean stone cold? Cause you can't take measurements off a warm engine.
 
TCK it had cooled since Thursday night til I checked it, so it should be somewhere around a 30 hr cooling time.

Thanks RB, I'll hook up some hoses and check the petcock while I got the tank pulled.

I think I might have found the culprit. If it's not it, it was something that needed to be rectified anyway. I opened up the bowls to check for stuck floats and they were fine and working. I realized I hadn't checked the float heights (had no verniers at the time I rebuilt them) so I measured them up and found them out of spec by like 2mm or so. The #3 was the worst culprit which struck me since that's the master.

Does that seem like it might be it? Clymer's calls for 23-25mm and I found them around 21-22mm. My reasoning is that maybe now that the carbs are clean, all the crud that may have kept things from leaking is gone. Flawed logic? Perhaps.
 
Big T said:
Gas in oil = leaky petcock

See if there's any gas in the vacuum line to #3 (that's #3,Pete) carb, or replace vacuum line with clear hose to check.

Don't bother with the carbs as yet

did you get Steve's spreadsheet for your valves?

The bike will run OK with tight clearances, better with proper ones. Do you think it's your feeler gauge?
Click to expand...

Bugger, cheers for the clarification Big T... for us twin guys it's always number 1 :rolleyes:
 
Okay, so I got aroound to checking my petcock as per Mr. Barr's guide and all seems okay, but I have some reservations about the results.

I get fuel flow when vacuum is applied, but when I stop sucking on the vac line, fuel keeps flowing for a few seconds. Probably a good 5-7 seconds after vacuum is removed. It stops after that, but it concerns me that it doesn't stop right away. Is that normal? Does the diaphram on a new petcock snap shut right away? If it supposed to then I suppose it's time for a new petcock. I just want to ask and make sure before I dum p the coin for one since they tend to be a bit pricey. (I still need to check prices for mine, but even if it's "cheap" it's still probably like $50)

So, again, does anyone have an idea of just how fast that diaphram should close?
 
OldVet66 said:
Gonzo, check out these gauges. You should be able to find one in the center and outer end of your clearance specs. they are way easier to use to get an accurate reading than standard feeler gauges. I could never get a good reading with standard gauges, these are spot on. http://www.z1enterprises.com/Tappet-Feeler-Gauges--006--008-inch--Individual-2877.aspx
Click to expand...
If you are using that exact gauge, your clearances are WAY larger than specified. :eek:

That gauge is for .006" and .008". If you do the math, the clearances on the 2-valve GS engines is only .001" to .003".

Where you are remembering an "8" is in the METRIC value, which is .03mm to .08mm. BIG difference between the two. :rolleyes:



Gonzo said:
The #3 was the worst culprit which struck me since that's the master.
Click to expand...
As far as fuel level is concerned, there is no "master" carb.
noway.gif


Also, when synchronizing your VM carbs, there is no "master" carb. :o

That only applies to the CV-style BS carbs on the newer bikes.



Gonzo said:
I get fuel flow when vacuum is applied, but when I stop sucking on the vac line, fuel keeps flowing for a few seconds. Probably a good 5-7 seconds after vacuum is removed. It stops after that, but it concerns me that it doesn't stop right away. Is that normal?
Click to expand...
How much fuel line has to drain after the petcock stops? :-k

If you have a long line attached to it, it will take a while to drain after the petcock closes. Try it again with as short a hose as possible.

.
 
Steve said:
How much fuel line has to drain after the petcock stops? :-k

If you have a long line attached to it, it will take a while to drain after the petcock closes. Try it again with as short a hose as possible.

.
Click to expand...

I had no line attached actually. I just set it on the edge of the table and held a bottle to the petcock opening to catch what drained out. If it blew pressure back into the vac line it closed almost right away. Not quite immediately, but my lungs can only pump so much pressure. The result was the same with the gas cap on and off. I tried both thinking that perhaps it might be affecting pressure on the other side somehow. I realize that it normally runs with the cap on so it's kind of moot, but I wanted to narrow down anything I could.

Yeah, I was thinking of which carb the vac line attached to when I was thinking of "master" carbs. I don't know why I didn't figure that out before. I'll claim that I was overly frustrated. :oops:

I checked Z1 for a petcock and I THINK I found one that fits mine, but it's kind of confusing because of the designations. Anyway, point is that it was around $50 so worst case scenario is I replace it somewhat cheaply and don't worry about it. I need to call Z1 to clarify though.
 
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