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Adventures in exhaust replacement

  • Thread starter Thread starter doctorgonzo
  • Start date Start date
D

doctorgonzo

Guest
New V&H should arrive today, so last night took my bike to a friend's garage to remove the old system and take care of the two bolts I knew were missing and likely sheared off. The horror show I found still has me a little nauseous. The first bad sign, "wow, none of these bolts are very tight". The reason for that... 4 of the 8 holes had ALREADY been heli-coiled. 2 of the remianing 4 barely had any threads, 1 was oversized and had no threads at all (1 of the 2 missing ones), and 1 had a sheared off bolt with the hole around it chewed all to hell like someone had tried to get at the tip of the bolt by removing the metal around it to get a grip on it. I tapped the two with minimal threads and they look like they have enought to hold, I heli-coiled the 1 oversized one (which started to dribble oil after I ran the tap down it, didn't drill AT ALL just ran a tap down it). The sheared off one we welded a nut to it 3 times, but it wouldn't hold. Managed to get a drill in it for an extractor, which promptly broke off the first try at turning it out. My mechanic friend says "you might as well give up on that one, you'll never drill out that tap, the steel is too tough".

SO... I guess tonight I am going to mount the exhaust with 5 of the 8 bolts heli-coiled, and leave the 1 bolt (the sheared one) off. I hope I can get it to seal.

Hopefully it will make it through the rest of this season as I start looking for a head...
 
And some clarification please...
It's an 81 GS1000G, so so any 80 to 82 GS1000 head will bolt on correct... also, an 1100 head will bolt on if it's 8 valve, which the 1100G is, correct.... also, I should use the cams from the new head as well, not my current ones....
 
doctorgonzo said:
And some clarification please...
It's an 81 GS1000G, so so any 80 to 82 GS1000 head will bolt on correct... also, an 1100 head will bolt on if it's 8 valve, which the 1100G is, correct.... also, I should use the cams from the new head as well, not my current ones....
Click to expand...
Yes yes and yes :) Im not sure however, if the cam timing on a 1000E would be different than the cam timing in the 1000G or the 1100G. I know that at some point Suzuki played with the cam timing on the 850G in order to get more torque down low, not sure if that followed the shaft drive variants or if it was ONLY the 850.
 
Thanks boss, I sure hope that ragged head will hold the pipes for the rest of this year without leaking. This is the handy work of not the PO I bought it from, but one of the POs before that, what a mess.
 
Finished the install last night. "hold for the rest of the year without leaking"... not gonna happen. With that ragged head 2 of the 4 header pipes now have leaks at the head. I can hear and feel them at idle (feel the wind if you put your hand near them). That rumble at idle is going to annoy the hell out of me and accelerate my new head search, BUT I checked the plugs and those cylinders aren't running too lean/hot, and it does handle and accelerate like a totally different bike now that it's about 30 pounds lighter.
 
The only bolt hole on the bike I am not comfortable with typical heli-coils are the exhaust bolt holes. They just vibrate too much. A machine shop should be able to do inserts while the head is still on the bike. I think I had one done for $20. Another option is to install studs, which in reality is a superior system anyway.

Re. the head/cams, I have always heard that if you are buying a used head, you should always use the cams that were used in that head. I still don't really understand how people use aftermarket cams though, so there must be exceptions to that rule or a workaround.
 
Jethro said:
The only bolt hole on the bike I am not comfortable with typical heli-coils are the exhaust bolt holes. They just vibrate too much. A machine shop should be able to do inserts while the head is still on the bike. I think I had one done for $20. Another option is to install studs, which in reality is a superior system anyway.

Re. the head/cams, I have always heard that if you are buying a used head, you should always use the cams that were used in that head. I still don't really understand how people use aftermarket cams though, so there must be exceptions to that rule or a workaround.
Click to expand...

They'd have to use the electrical method (can't remember what it's called) to get them out. One has an extractor broken in it, and the other has a tap broken in it. If they could be drilled, I'd do it.

I've heard that about the cams too. My plan is to use aftermarket cams. I think you are fine that route because the new cams just wear to match the wear in the head where an old cam already has wear, then is going to develop a new wear pattern as well. I was planning on getting a new head and getting it ported, new cam chain, web cams, etc... anyway. This just moves that process to the top of the agenda.
 
No luck at salvage yards so far, found two 1100 heads on ebay in the $200 range (with assurances of no stripped bolt holes). Does that seem like a fair price?
 
Jethro said:
Another option is to install studs, which in reality is a superior system anyway.
Click to expand...

I am going to have to remove my exhaust also, but I have never seen stud replacments. Where would I find that Z1, Bikebandit?
 
buster said:
I am going to have to remove my exhaust also, but I have never seen stud replacments. Where would I find that Z1, Bikebandit?
Click to expand...

You just put in a stud the right size (probably M8 X125) and lock it down with red loctite. Then the removeable part becomes the nut.
 
You can swap the cams, the cam caps are the things you should keep with the head they came with. Studs are good, better than bolts (just my opinion) You can soak both sides of a nut on a stud with WD-40 etc. the bolt threads, down in the head is much harder to get penetrating oil down into. Also with studs, you have 2 chances to get the fastener out. If the nut comes off, that's good but if the nut is siezed too tight, maybe the stud will screw out, also good.
 
Yeah but the studs are going into the head and will see a great deal of heat. What grade is recommended? GR.8?
 
buster said:
Yeah but the studs are going into the head and will see a great deal of heat. What grade is recommended? GR.8?
Click to expand...

Going the same place a bolt would go, and in this scenario you don't really care if it freezes in there, that's ok, the plan is to never take it out. Any bolt or stud that I replace on mine gets 316 stainless.
 
doctorgonzo said:
They'd have to use the electrical method (can't remember what it's called) to get them out. One has an extractor broken in it, and the other has a tap broken in it. If they could be drilled, I'd do it.
Click to expand...

That would be EDM
 
Wouldn't use loctite on studs nor bolts, Yoy don't want it to be there forever. Like now, you want to get them out. Anti-seize would be a good idea. Those things don't vibrate & fall out, but if one did, no problem to put one back in. Much easier than what you are into now. There's a good chance that if they were installed with anti-seize, they wouldn't have twisted off in the first place. Just my opinion.
 
rphillips said:
Wouldn't use loctite on studs nor bolts, Yoy don't want it to be there forever. Like now, you want to get them out. Anti-seize would be a good idea. Those things don't vibrate & fall out, but if one did, no problem to put one back in. Much easier than what you are into now. There's a good chance that if they were installed with anti-seize, they wouldn't have twisted off in the first place. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

I haven't converted to studs, mine are bolts, 2 of which were sheared off by the PO. The new bolts I put in got a healthy dose of anti-seize. We got sidetracked into a discussion of replacing bolts with studs, which I will probably do when I swap the head eventually.
 
doctorgonzo said:
New V&H should arrive today, so last night took my bike to a friend's garage to remove the old system and take care of the two bolts I knew were missing and likely sheared off. The horror show I found still has me a little nauseous. The first bad sign, "wow, none of these bolts are very tight". The reason for that... 4 of the 8 holes had ALREADY been heli-coiled. 2 of the remianing 4 barely had any threads, 1 was oversized and had no threads at all (1 of the 2 missing ones), and 1 had a sheared off bolt with the hole around it chewed all to hell like someone had tried to get at the tip of the bolt by removing the metal around it to get a grip on it. I tapped the two with minimal threads and they look like they have enought to hold, I heli-coiled the 1 oversized one (which started to dribble oil after I ran the tap down it, didn't drill AT ALL just ran a tap down it). The sheared off one we welded a nut to it 3 times, but it wouldn't hold. Managed to get a drill in it for an extractor, which promptly broke off the first try at turning it out. My mechanic friend says "you might as well give up on that one, you'll never drill out that tap, the steel is too tough".

SO... I guess tonight I am going to mount the exhaust with 5 of the 8 bolts heli-coiled, and leave the 1 bolt (the sheared one) off. I hope I can get it to seal.

Hopefully it will make it through the rest of this season as I start looking for a head...
Click to expand...
Oi, what are you doing with your old exhaust? Im looking for a right side pipe, just the 4 cyl pipe and meg. Mine looke REALLY good except for the meg where it got dropped and scuffed to hell years and POs ago.
 
TheCafeKid said:
Oi, what are you doing with your old exhaust? Im looking for a right side pipe, just the 4 cyl pipe and meg. Mine looke REALLY good except for the meg where it got dropped and scuffed to hell years and POs ago.
Click to expand...

It's for sale now that you mention it. Talking to one member about it, but nothing solid. On a side note. I know you are looking for an 8 valve 1100 head. I need one (or a 1000 head) if you run across more than the one you need, let me know. there are TWO 16 valve 1100 hundred heads on ebay right now, but not one 80 or greater 1000 head or 8 valve 1100 head.
 
rphillips said:
Wouldn't use loctite on studs nor bolts, Yoy don't want it to be there forever. Like now, you want to get them out. Anti-seize would be a good idea. Those things don't vibrate & fall out, but if one did, no problem to put one back in. Much easier than what you are into now. There's a good chance that if they were installed with anti-seize, they wouldn't have twisted off in the first place. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Anti-sieze with the copper colored stuff. And I hear of some folks not using exhaust gaskets, it's important to know that the torque depends on those gaskets- it's foolish to go without- new ones each time is best.
 
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