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annoying rattle , anyone recognise it please

  • Thread starter Thread starter janner
  • Start date Start date
janner said:
:(:(:(:( anybody want to buy an otherwise mint GS650GT ?:-\\\:-\\\
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If that is the only thing that is wrong with it, don't worry about it.

My wife's bike sounded like that (actually just a bit worse) when we got it six (or was it seven) years ago.
We have put on about 25,000 miles, the sound is no different.

Just accept it as a "normal" noise and RIDE.
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Suzuki_Don said:
Am I missing something here!
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Possibly

If you read every post up to now, the opinions have been that the knocking is either cam chain slap and therefore the discussion was lead towards the cam chain tensioner being the culprit and solutions were offered.

However the other possibility is that it could be cam walk.

The proper fix for cam walks is http://members.dslextreme.com/users/..._float_mod.pdf

While we are on this tangent I suggested to Use a thin spacer to correct the cam walk.
 
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Mekanix said:
Possibly

If you read every post up to now, the opinions have been that the knocking is either cam chain slap and therefore the discussion was lead towards the cam chain tensioner being the culprit and solutions were offered.

However the other possibility is that it could be cam walk.

The proper fix for cam walks is http://members.dslextreme.com/users/..._float_mod.pdf

While we are on this tangent I suggested to Use a thin spacer to correct the cam walk.
Click to expand...

Sorry -- Didn't mean to upset anybody, but I thought you said a thin steel washer. I'd just like to know from a mechanical/engineering point of view how you would propose to do this? How do you put a big, thin, steel washer around a camshaft to stop cam walk. I am always willing to learn a new technique and I am very interested in this one.
 
Suzuki_Don said:
Sorry -- Didn't mean to upset anybody, but I thought you said a thin steel washer. I'd just like to know from a mechanical/engineering point of view how you would propose to do this? How do you put a big, thin, steel washer around a camshaft to stop cam walk. I am always willing to learn a new technique and I am very interested in this one.
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Good point Don. Plus you'd need to use shim stock in the 0.0015" to 0.0045" range.:-\\\
 
Right chaps, been out this morning and removed the vac line and plugged with bolt and started her up from cold with fuel tap in prime, in reserve and on positions she runs out of fuel !! anyway, the upshot is that there was some very slight knocking when cold that I traced to the front cam above the exhaust ports with the aid of an old pushrod and holding to my ear, also the cam chrome end covers get a lot hotter than the rears and a lot quicker but i presume thats natural being above the headers, but could this also be a reason why the front cam wears quicker? , anyway as she got to full temperature the knocking dissapeared completely and even with my pushrod held to my ear i could detect no knocking at all, so , why is it there sometimes and not others, and why when its hot and the oil is at its thinnest is it quieter, ive ran the carbs out dry now ready to remove the tank and get at the carbs and the tensioner, !! oh! by the way i also held my pushrod to my ear and held it against the tensioner body while running and there was no cam chain noise from there either, also the bike seemed to pick up and be a lot more responsive without the vac line attached, gentlemen . your views please..cheers jon
 
She's quieter when she's hot because all the cylinders are working evenly, or more evenly. When cold the engine will be 'hunting' to some degree and. for example, #2 will get a bigger bang than #3 throwing the engine out of balance. This is a classic symptom of clutch rattle - some bikes sound as if they're going to throw everything out through the crankcase when cold but run quite sweetly warmed up. Not saying it is your clutch but just that that noise is the most definitive of cylinders out of balance.

If it's runing better with the vacuum line plugged and she won't run on run or reserve it would suggest that either your vac hose is leaking or, more likely, the diaphragm in the tap is boogered. This ties in with the earlier post about your oil smelling of petrol, one rich cylinder etc.

Keep at it. It'll run fine in the end.
 
Hammy, Right first of all thanks for bearing with me on this one , secondly, if it is the clutch rattling then why was the noise most prominent when i held the doobry against the front cam cover ? and so is it best to take it for a run with the vac line plugged ? would that running rich have caused the hesitancy / missing i was experiencing ? in which case do i need to strip the carbs off? Do bare with me , i,m just trying to prioritise my workload as i have umpteen theings on the go here.. and not enough time, cheers mate
 
The example I gave of clutch rattle being much worse when a motor is cold was just that - an example. It was just to explain what happens to some rattles when an engine warms up and settles down.

If I'm honest, I used to try the stethoscope trick but it never worked for me. I always wondered if some areas being more 'hollow' than others could echo a noise and make it seem like the noise was coming from a different place. Might just be my ears though as others seem to think it works.

Take the bike for a run with the vac line plugged; some people run like this all the time anyway. I would plug both ends (carb and tap) as if you have got a leaky tap diaphragm you might fine petrol all over your left leg.
 
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can you feel any feedback through the clutch lever, if you put very slight pressure on the lever, just enough to take up the freeplay, you should feel if the clutch is rattling, or does the rattle go if you pull in the clutch?
 
Yeh i done all that and there is no feedback through the lever at all, totally smooth action , started it again and ran it up an hour ago and still very quiet and disappears completely when hot..
 
janner said:
Yeh i done all that and there is no feedback through the lever at all, totally smooth action , started it again and ran it up an hour ago and still very quiet and disappears completely when hot..
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It's definitely cam walk.

There are others on this forum who have done this machining. Hopefully, one of them will listen to your clip and confirm that you have cam walk!

I was skeptical too until I removed the cam chain and slid the cams sideways back and forward against the thrust rings. The sound I got was identical to the knock I was hearing, but with less magnitude because the cam cover was removed.

I can appreciate your skepticism on this, as you are receiving a lot of contradictory information.

Keep riding it. If I'm right, the sound will still be there in 6 months or even 6 years time, and no further damage will have been done to the engine.
 
The thing I can't square with the cam end float noise is that it only makes that noise when cold and it disappears when hot. That's the other way round to norm.
 
Yeh , thats whats bothering me, tried it again tonight before i came in from the worshop just to let a biker mate of mine have a listen over the phone, i told him to listen for it 2/3 minutes , after start up and then listen again when its at full temp , and sure enough it came and went again, so to be honest i think i,ll get the carbs done and take out the tensioner and refurb that and re-set it and who knows, it might even sort the problem out as that would stop a lot of lash too, we,ll see, as for the fuel tap , it think it would be wise to fit a new pet cock while doing everything else too, cheers jon




Also, ive been offered a low mileage gs650gt head and with tight cams for ?195 plus postage, what you reckon, its off a breaker on ebay
And what is the measurements to check for on end float, i mean what is the float allowed to be
 
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I don't think Suzuki give a figure but Ian reckons 0.0015 in (and he sorted it).

have you got a link to the Ebay item. There's one or two dodgy breakers we know out there.
 
hampshirehog said:
The thing I can't square with the cam end float noise is that it only makes that noise when cold and it disappears when hot. That's the other way round to norm.
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I never noticed it when the engine was cold, unless I left the bike on the side stand the last time I parked it.

I believe it's related to excessive cam bearing clearances, and the viscosity of the oil at idle. I never noticed the noise directly after hammering the engine. I could stop and no audible knocks for some time until the engine cooled or the oil viscosity/pressure dropped.
 
My GS650E had exactly the same noise when cold. Since I had to remove head for gasket, I had to take the cam chain tensionner off, When I replaced everything and adjust properly noise was gone. Just my 2 cents.

Good luck.

Andr?
 
Not a cam walk, not a tensioner. It is a single noisy cam chain link, going over the two sprockets. Listen to the timing of it, click, click,,,,,,,,,,,click, click,,,,,,,,,,click, click,,,,,,,,,,click, click, once every several crankshaft revolutions as the chain link goes around. The noise will be there for a while then go away for a while, usually it's only with a hot engine, and only at idle. You can't hear it at any higher RPM. I have heard this on two previous GS engines, one an early 750, the other I think was a 550. Both are still running fine, and have not failed. You couldn't see or feel any damage to any one link when the tension was loosened, no kinking or anything. If you run the engine at a slow idle with the valve cover off the cause of the sound is very obvious. We put a spot of paint on one link, the timing of the noise is perfect, the same link was making the noise every time around.
 
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