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Bad plugs or too lean?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Guest
  • Start date Start date
Bill, I'll bet it will STILL take more fuel if you had 3-3.5 threads on the heat. I'll bet it will run with 145s in it. The D9s are ALL I will use & I don't put D8s in anything but an oil burning, next to dead motor. Also, make sure you don't have more than 34 degrees at FULL advance. Good luck at Yosemite & be safe! Ray.
 
I'll keep and eye on the heat range and let you know.
I went down to the 137.5s when I noticed it ran better cold than fully warm when it hit those wonderful 100+ days here in Bako.

The color on the 137.5s looked perfect but I think that was from the needle circuit.
 
A simpler view

A simpler view

This is far less elegant than some of the other theories out there, but did
you gap the plugs using one of these keychain ramp disc feeler gauges?

SPARK%20PLUG%20GAPPER.jpg


I've seen them snap off the center electrode before when used ramp side towards the ceramic.
You could have simply cracked it and it fell off in the cylinder, and then the stub got worn as per usual.

Just a thought.
Hey, I've watched a very smart tech absentmindedly gap iridium plugs, making me eat (as service manager) over $100 in plugs.
**** happens.
 
chef1366 said:
Brought the plugs to the dragstrip to show Kris V. He said he's never seen a plug melt while the end electrode stayed perfectly cymmetrical and flat. If it had melted it would be rounded off and the ceramic would be melted.
Bad plugs in my opinion.
Still though I put back in the 140s and went with a D9EA plug. Runs great!

Stock ignition timed stock
The intake and exhaust cams are both set to 110 degrees.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a reasonable action plan - larger main and cooler plugs. You might want to watch these new plugs closely for the next couple of thousand miles to make sure everything is as expected.

Good luck.

Ed
 
Now with WOT I'm getting a second of hesitation before it takes off. I have to do some plug chops.
I wonder if this is ignition related? Have 12 volts at coils but the ignition is stock.
Ray said I should get a Dyna S, green Dyna coils and then jet.
 
chef1366 said:
Now with WOT I'm getting a second of hesitation before it takes off. I have to do some plug chops.
I wonder if this is ignition related? Have 12 volts at coils but the ignition is stock.
Ray said I should get a Dyna S, green Dyna coils and then jet.
Click to expand...

Hard to imagine that there is anything wrong with your ignition; it was throwing a spark across a 0.050" gap with those old plugs. Wouldn't hurt to try but seems like an unlikely cause of the problem at this point.
 
Have a strange stumble on hard accel. Not at any consistent throttle position.
Decided to strip and dip the carbs cause I did half-a$$ed job the first time. Didn't help.
Pulled the spark plug caps off and snipped the wires back a bit. The wires were black and some were really receded. Didn't get a chance to run it cause it got dark and I have been up since 5am so I'll put the tank on in the morning and do a test ride.
 
chef1366 said:
Have a strange stumble on hard accel. Not at any consistent throttle position.
Decided to strip and dip the carbs cause I did half-a$$ed job the first time. Didn't help.
Pulled the spark plug caps off and snipped the wires back a bit. The wires were black and some were really receded. Didn't get a chance to run it cause it got dark and I have been up since 5am so I'll put the tank on in the morning and do a test ride.
Click to expand...
Im having that same hesitation on my 1100G. I was thinking i was lean in the main and maybe a needle shim, but I may check the wires first. Once it passes that lil hiccup, its off to the races. But today, i ran thru some hella storms on my way up to see a friend, and the bike started displaying some "buzziness" afterwards, like maybe it was missing now and then on one cylinder. After it dried out, it smoothed out, but that hesitation is still there, so it may just be some crappy wire/caps...
 
chef1366 said:
Have a strange stumble on hard accel. Not at any consistent throttle position.
Decided to strip and dip the carbs cause I did half-a$$ed job the first time. Didn't help.
Pulled the spark plug caps off and snipped the wires back a bit. The wires were black and some were really receded. Didn't get a chance to run it cause it got dark and I have been up since 5am so I'll put the tank on in the morning and do a test ride.
Click to expand...

Ah, CV carbs. They run so smoothly with an airbox! :-)

Bill, I think that you need to check the operation of the diaphragms. If they're lagging too far behind the engine air/fuel demand, you will have a lean stagger until they open at the right rate. Make certain that part of your pods are not blocking off the vacuum ports.

You can compensate with needle shape, or the diaphragm spring rates.
 
49er said:
Ah, CV carbs. They run so smoothly with an airbox! :-)

Bill, I think that you need to check the operation of the diaphragms. If they're lagging too far behind the engine air/fuel demand, you will have a lean stagger until they open at the right rate. Make certain that part of your pods are not blocking off the vacuum ports.

You can compensate with needle shape, or the diaphragm spring rates.
Click to expand...
The pods aren't blocking the vacuum port. I have the needle set at the bottom notch. Can't raise it anymore unless I lose the plastic spacer or at least shave a little off it. I have four extra ones. Maybe I'll try that if the spark plug cap trim doesn't work.
The 1150 springs are shorter than the 1100s. Can I shorten them, Ian?

I'm also going to invest in a Dyna S and green Dyna coils.
 
Bill,

If you are getting a nice fat spark at the plug I wouldn't bother.... on mine when the ignition went you could clearly see it was weak. You could also test it per clymer's, mine failed that too.

Could the problem be the other way? Too much fuel when it's coming onto needle?

Dan :)
 
chef1366 said:
The pods aren't blocking the vacuum port. I have the needle set at the bottom notch. Can't raise it anymore unless I lose the plastic spacer or at least shave a little off it. I have four extra ones. Maybe I'll try that if the spark plug cap trim doesn't work.
The 1150 springs are shorter than the 1100s. Can I shorten them, Ian?

I'm also going to invest in a Dyna S and green Dyna coils.
Click to expand...

Bill, I didn't realise that you had the needles on the bottom notch. Seems a bit extreme but so are the engine mods!
If you were rich on the needles at transition, that should carry on through the mid range and show up on your plug chops.

You need to compare both sets of springs along with the weight of the diaphragms. Your vacuum levels at 1/4 throttle will be different to what you had before you fitted the larger valves and enlarged the porting.
Dont cut your 1150 springs just yet.

If your plug chops are good in the mid range, try leaning your pilot air screws a tad and see if the transistion improves. If it gets worse, then you are definately leaning at transition. If it improves your pilots are too rich.

Because of your radical tuning, you may never get it to run perfectly, especially at the bottom end of the rev range. But don't stop trying just yet.
 
I richened the needle with washers in place of the spacer. Too fat! I couldn't even get it to run at WOT.
The heat range on the plugs is showing up and I have one thread on 2 and 4 and none on 1&3. I think I'm fat all around.
 
Lowered the needle one notch from the bottom and put in the 137.5s. Issue solved. I guess when I jetted these carbs in the cooler weather it was borderline rich and the heat just but it over the edge.
Plus those plugs threw me for a loop! I guess they were just bad plugs:-?
They certainly didn't melt from being lean!
 
chef1366 said:
Lowered the needle one notch from the bottom and put in the 137.5s. Issue solved. I guess when I jetted these carbs in the cooler weather it was borderline rich and the heat just but it over the edge.
Plus those plugs threw me for a loop! I guess they were just bad plugs:-?
They certainly didn't melt from being lean!
Click to expand...

If your plugs didn't melt from excessive leanness, their heat range number was incorrectly marked on the plugs. Melted electodes are bad news and are usually followed by holed pistons. You're one lucky Dude!

Redo your plug chops to make sure you've got it right. Even better, do a dyno check of your AFR's throughout the rev range.
 
The right way would be to get it Dyno'ed.
What would I do with all my spare time??:rolleyes:
 
Ok...total newb question when it comes to this, but after reading this thread, and knowing some of the symtoms that chef was experiencing (not the plug problem, thankfully) kinda got me starting to look more at my plugs. They LOOK good, good colour. The response in the throttle is the same as Chef was having, that slight stagger when you wack it, then being blasted out of a cannon when the slides/throttle caught up. Anyway, i see this about heat range reading with the threads, WHAT exactly am i looking for with this?
 
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