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"Bargin" 650, I think the honeymoon is over....

Charlie G

Charlie G

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I got this nice deal ($250.00) on a 1982 650g with 30k miles on it. She runs, starts right up, actually sings to my ears. PO said her rebuilt carbs two ago, about the time he stopped riding it. It's been sitting for two years.

Put SEAFOAM in a full tank, rode fifty mile or so, on various short trips. It excellerates fairly good till 5 krpm's and stumbles, but will continue further up the tach, but slowly. I ride a gs450 so it seems like more power to me, but less than I would expect. After short 10 miles runs the engine case is hot. Hot enough to burn you. This isn't right is it?

Changed air filter. Check vacum line to carb for fuel flowing into carb, ok. Checked plugs, all look black, sooty, one gapped twice the spec setting. Change plugs with new, that PO provided. Another 15 mile run. Case real hot again.(cookin eggs hot)Runs better, not there yet.

Check compression...#1=90psi, #2=125psi, #3=90psi, #4=90psi

I'm thinkin seezed rings in three cylinders, blow bye, and oil in combustion chamber. What do you non-carpenter/jointer, wrenching types think? Any quick fixes,

(Dream on.....;).....Slapp!)

Thanks for your help.

cg
 
How about doing some maintenance Charlie? Start with a proper carb rebuild, not a quicky spritz out, and valve adjustment. Dollars to donuts the valves don't have any clearance and the carbs are full of sludge and hard o-rings.
 
Charlie G said:
I got this nice deal ($250.00) on a 1982 650g with 30k miles on it. She runs, starts right up, actually sings to my ears. PO said her rebuilt carbs two ago, about the time he stopped riding it. It's been sitting for two years.

Put SEAFOAM in a full tank, rode fifty mile or so, on various short trips. It excellerates fairly good till 5 krpm's and stumbles, but will continue further up the tach, but slowly. I ride a gs450 so it seems like more power to me, but less than I would expect. After short 10 miles runs the engine case is hot. Hot enough to burn you. This isn't right is it?

Changed air filter. Check vacum line to carb for fuel flowing into carb, ok. Checked plugs, all look black, sooty, one gapped twice the spec setting. Change plugs with new, that PO provided. Another 15 mile run. Case real hot again.(cookin eggs hot)Runs better, not there yet.

Check compression...#1=90psi, #2=125psi, #3=90psi, #4=90psi

I'm thinkin seezed rings in three cylinders, blow bye, and oil in combustion chamber. What do you non-carpenter/jointer, wrenching types think? Any quick fixes,

(Dream on.....;).....Slapp!)

Thanks for your help.

cg
Click to expand...

Well since the PO said the carbs were "rebuilt" two years ago I'd start with the valve clearance check, you might find better compression after that. While you're in there check all the grounds you can find and see how much below battery the voltage is at the coils.
How much voltage are you losing in the harness?

If she runs and starts right up you're probably going to be in good shape after some cleaning and basic maintenance. Cleaning the carbs really isn't that hard and you probably have more junk in them from sitting than seafoam is going to cure but maybe not and you must have pretty good luck since you got a $250 runner GS already!

/\/\ac
 
Carb cleaning is super easy with the right parts--buy an O-ring kit from cycleorings.com and DON'T waste your time with the expensive carb rebuild kits. I found this out the hard (read: more expensive) way about six weeks ago.

Link to a CV carb rebuild guide on BikeCliff's website (THANKS BIKECLIFF!!)
http://www.mtsac.edu/~cliff/storage/gs/mc_maint/GS_CV_Carb_Cleaning_Series.pdf

A valve adjustment is also a very simple job. I'm working on that right now on my bike. Granted, you'd have to have the parts/tools in front of you to do so, but an adjustment is also a super fast job to do if you do have the stuff. If I wasn't waiting for shims to show up, I'd be riding now instead of typing.

Link to BikeCliff's website, which has valve adjustment tutorials that are great: http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/
-->Take special note of the "Zip-tie supplement", it will save you having to spend extra money on new tools.<--

You could have that puppy running like a clock in less than a week if you're willing to put the time in.
 
I knew I'd get slapped. Adjust the valves, that's gotta be a must. Thanks, I needed that. It' s been 30 years sinced I rebuilt a carb, let alone four. I did the valves on 400, years ago, fabricating a tool from a screw driver to compress the shim bucket. I like to use a real tool this time. Read the "tie method", I'm a tool junkie, what can i say. I'll get one ordered. I'm working in baby steps here. I've only had it a week. ( I know, quite wineing)

What do you think of the extremely hot engine case after 15 miles? Normal?
Thanks for you help!

cg
 
Last edited:
Did you check the compression on a hot motor with the throttle wide open?
 
I took the compression test about two hours after the last ride. It was warm, but not burn your hands hot. I read the full open throttle part in the manual and thought, WTF!. No, I didn't hold full open throttle. (I gotta learn to duck.) O.K., why full open throttle?

I did notice a corroded ground wire at the battery neg termal and it's on my list.


Thanks.

cg
 
Charlie G said:
No, I didn't hold full open throttle. (I gotta learn to duck.) O.K., why full open throttle?
Click to expand...

It lets air into the cylinders. :)

Your heat problem could be valves not working right (out of adjustment). That could also explain your sooty plugs. Did you put fresh oil in it? If not, take the oil fill cap off and make sure your oil doesn't smell like gas.
 
I think you're right on it with the stuck rings theory. This could account for the plugs looking oilly. But the over heating will be carb related, lean running. That's why the engine won't pull cleanly past 5000 rpm.

If it sat for 2 years or more, your carbs probably do need re-cleaning. Save yourself some agro by not trusting the PO to have done the carb clean and general maintenance properly. Why did he park it for 2 years or even longer and then sell it?

A valve clearance check would also be high on the general maintenance priority list.
 
Bruce,

I don't trust my nose. I'm not certian what I smell. The oil level may be down a bit, not certian. Plugs are more sooty than oily.


I guess I'll just have to go for another ride ( tuff job ) , compreeion check with throttle open ( not like vw carbs?) and see where I'm at then. Adjust the valves when I get tools.

Thanks all. Humbling being a newbie. A 49er in kiwi land?

cg
 
I did a compression check with a warm engine and holding throttle wide open. This is the result:

#1=128psi, #2=135, #3=135, #4=135

Valve adjustment tool on the way from Z1.


Thanks all!


cg
 
Charlie G said:
I did a compression check with a warm engine and holding throttle wide open. This is the result:

#1=128psi, #2=135, #3=135, #4=135

Valve adjustment tool on the way from Z1.


Thanks all!


cg
Click to expand...

That's much better. Get those valves adjusted, change the oil and filter, and I'll bet you are good to go. Sounds like your carbs may need some attention though. If you need help let me know.
 
Glad to hear from you. I really want to get this thing going before the rally. Relieved to have the compression come up. I'm thinking I'll have to get into the carbs as well, but what do I know. He (P.O.) saved all the old parts from when he rebuilt them. I may be mailing you a set of carbs but I really think if I'm going to ride it, I should work on it. Do you get your filters local or mail order? The only m/c atv shop around here just closed. The next closest is an hour away and Suzuki is 1 1/2 hrs. Take care.

cg
 
Charlie G said:
Do you get your filters local or mail order? The only m/c atv shop around here just closed. The next closest is an hour away and Suzuki is 1 1/2 hrs. Take care.

cg
Click to expand...

Fram filter # CH6000 (includes o-ring) avail at most auto parts stores for $5. WalMart does not carry them. This fits the 650G, 850G, 1100G bikes.
Some feel Fram filters are no good, but I've used them for years on many cars and bikes and put many miles without a problem, but I do change my filter every time I change the oil.
 
Last edited:
Lurch,

Thanks for the info, at least I know a Part # to start with. I was in Southern NH for two weeks this May, boy did it rain the last week. I wished I had a bike while I was there. Saw some nice twistie roads to carve.

cg
 
lurch12_2000 said:
Fram filter # CH6000 (includes o-ring) avail at most auto parts stores for $5. WalMart does not carry them. This fits the 650G, 850G, 1100G bikes.
Some feel Fram filters are no good, but I've used them for years on many cars and bikes and put many miles without a problem, but I do change my filter every time I change the oil.
Click to expand...

I see you have a NAPA in Mt. Shasta and Weed. Give them the Fram number and they can cross reference to their filter. Of if you have a local parts store, maybe they can order it in for you.

I can do your carbs for you, but you can do them, too. No big deal. Order up an oring kit for the CV carbs from www.cycleorings.com He's a member here, and he'll have them to you fast. That should be all you need except maybe some new bowl gaskets which you can get from www.z1enterprises.com If you don't have the time to take them apart and dip them, leave them on the rack and clean them that way. Get a few cans of carb cleaner and use wire from bread ties or the like. Dipping is always the best way to do them, but considering your bike runs (although not great), you can probably get by that way just fine. Remove all the jets, etc. and clean/blow out all the passages. Look at the carb cleanup series in the GS Garage on the homepage. If you get stuck with something, just let me know. :)
 
Charlie, if you PM me your address I'll send you a set of o-ring for the intake boots, you should replace them while you have the carbs off. You'll still need the carb internal o-rings from cycleorings.com as well.

/\/\ac
 
Valves adjusted, Oil changed, almost all parts here for carb rebuild. Can anyone recomend tools and supplier for carb sync?

cg
 
Synch Tool

Synch Tool

Morgan Carbtune is the best from what I have read. Mercury manometers work as well but not as good as the Carbtune. I would stay away from the dial gauge synch tools. I have one of those and I didn't like it at all. It seemed very inaccurate. It was dissatisfied enough that I bought a Morgan Carbtune. I am very satisfied with it.

P.S. Even though it came from England, it arrived in less than a week from when I ordered it.
 
Glad your compression improved. You've got to careful with this site - they will have you cleaning your carbs for a flat tire. Just kidding :)
 
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