Best Japanese super sport 600 for occasional track and weekend rides???

[Jedz123]

Well Guys I have to say I had one hell of a riding season this year. I LEARNED allot on what works for me, what doesn't and the direction of what type of rider I'm becoming.

The MSF courses I took this year really helped me develop into a very technical rider, I purchased the C-14 late July and since with the 7K miles I've put on it I'm getting to the point I'm over riding the machine. A few guys on here can attest I ride it hard and it's a phenomenal bike for daily applications and spirited group rides (hell I'm still commuting on it in 20' weather at night). However I really want to pursue track riding, not really to compete but push my limits and increase my skills as a motorcyclist. The Connie is great and have no want to get rid of it but I really want a track oriented machine with weekend warrior attributes. With MSF humbling my approach when it comes to where my true skills set is I feel a 4 cylinder 600cc weekend/track bike would satisfy my skill level and still be fun to use on the street with my buddies (some of which are on this forum).

I'm looking for input with experience. I talked to my buddies at Procycle down in N.Claerendon VT. They highly recommend a R6 or CBR600RR for on and off track riding, really laying on it heavy with the YZF-R6. They told me the SV650 is a great track day bike but lacks real world high end punch for weekend rides and wouldn't recommend it for both applications.

My budget for a super sport 600 is $3000-$4500, which I intend on nabbing mid winter when the prices drop out...

The contenders I'm looking at are as follows:

2006+ Yamaha YZF-R6

2005+ Honda CBR600RR

2004+ Suzuki GSX-R 600 (maybe a 750?)

2005+ Kawasaki ZX6R

The prices are already really starting to drop out with all these bikes popping up in the sub $4K range. There's a 07 ZX6R for sale right now I could get my hands on for $3K.

So have at it... I listed the bikes from most want to least want but I'd take any of them. Looking for input and experience if any of you guys have some with these bikes.

Also open to other ideas as well but I really don't want a liter right now. Maybe after I really hone my skills with a 600 on track specific days and courses.

Thanks again...

-Jedz

 

[8ball]

You won't go wrong with any of those choices for track duty, since you don't plan on racing it.

The R6 is the best handling of the bunch...like riding on a knife edge, but it is probably the least comfortable ergonomically. The CBR is a bit down on power, but the engine is overbuilt and dead reliable. The GSX-r is long in the tooth, but is comfortable and parts for it grow on trees! The ZX6 is a good bike, but it would be on the bottom of my list...They just aren't as outstanding, and since they aren't as popular, used parts availability isn't as good.

As far as preference, I would put them in the exact order that you did, but the GSX-R and the CBR would be a close 2nd and 3rd.

 

[Buffalo Bill]

"Long in the tooth" is irrelevant for track bikes, you ain't gonna learn your way outta the novice class in less than one full year of track days.
Then when you make the Intermediate group?well, look out for yourself.
All the veterans have ugglied up their bikes in crashes, and you'll see that for yourself as you take a walk through pit lane.

Just read this again today, something I downloaded as I decided to try a track day.

"Track Day Thoughts
1.Don't ride a bike you are unwilling to have damaged
a.If you can't afford to walk away from it, don't put it on the track
b.If you make payments on it, you can't afford it
c.If it is a street bike and you have insurance (and you should), make it full coverage, most policies cover 'non-race' track day events (obviously you should verify this with your carrier)
2. Your current bike is most likely far more than you can safely handle
3.A used, track prepped, mid-sized bike (like an SV 650) is a great track machine that will actually allow you improve faster than something that is too powerful for you
4.Prepare for damage: frame sliders, bar-end sliders, fork sliders, a few stickers."

 

[Kiwi Canuck]

A riding friend of mine (also an employee) rides a very nice Ducati 1098 and was looking for a track bike as he didn't want to "learn" (crash) on that bike.

He was also considering an R6 or GSXR 600.

He finally found a GSXR 750 for under $3,000 about 2 weeks ago with really good cosmetics so he bought a 2nd set of fairings to save the near new set.

It's true that you can pick up a good deal towards the end of the riding season but there is also more guys looking for deal and less people selling, so you do need to be quick (or lucky)

He went with Suzuki because it's well supported here and parts are easy to get new or used.

He will race at Mission (Vancouver) Seattle, and Portland so the 750 should be perfect for those tracks.

He is about 5'11' and 180lb so he could have gone with either the 600 or 750.

The guy who wins most of the races locally here rides a 2011 GSXR600 and only occasionally gets beaten by the liter bikes because Mission is a fairly tight track.,

http://www.modernmotorcycling.com/tmr/spero-1.htm he has also won everything in 2015 I believe.

So it comes down to the following, your size and weight, the tracks you will ride, your brand preference/loyalty and which local dealers you align yourself with.

If I was to ever race again I would ride a Suzuki because the dealer most involved at our local track is Modern motorcycles and are a Suzuki dealer here.

I also rode for a Suzuki dealer back in NZ and when starting out they sponsored me with parts discounts and gave rider coaching and bike setup help at the track which is all part of the experience.

So the model of bike may make a difference more so with the ongoing support and teams that you align with and will help if you decide to get more serious about racing.

Good luck.

David

 

[Hayabuser]

GSXR750 or any 636cc ZX6 from your list, Daytona 675 is the pick of the supersports litter though.

 

[GS1150Pilot]

Of course, you could always go with a '98 R1 ...

 

[Jedz123]

"Long in the tooth" is irrelevant for track bikes, you ain't gonna learn your way outta the novice class in less than one full year of track days.
Then when you make the Intermediate group…well, look out for yourself.
All the veterans have ugglied up their bikes in crashes, and you'll see that for yourself as you take a walk through pit lane.

Just read this again today, something I downloaded as I decided to try a track day.

"Track Day Thoughts
1.Don't ride a bike you are unwilling to have damaged
a.If you can't afford to walk away from it, don't put it on the track
b.If you make payments on it, you can't afford it
c.If it is a street bike and you have insurance (and you should), make it full coverage, most policies cover 'non-race' track day events (obviously you should verify this with your carrier)
2. Your current bike is most likely far more than you can safely handle
3.A used, track prepped, mid-sized bike (like an SV 650) is a great track machine that will actually allow you improve faster than something that is too powerful for you
4.Prepare for damage: frame sliders, bar-end sliders, fork sliders, a few stickers."

Thanks Bill. I really have no interest in competing but going out and hitting turns harder then would be safe on public roads. I want to personally improve my technical skills as a rider, all I really want to get out of track days. I believe it will only make me a better rider for real world applications if I have to correct in turns for emergency situations. I just love leaning hard and riding through turns fast... A track is really the only safe place to do that.

Great pointers for sure. I'm not going to be financing anything out for this. Full coverage is all I ever keep on my bikes and my sport bike would be no exception. I also plan to invest into a 1 piece riding leather suit... I wouldn't say my current bike is far more then I can safely handle. The other day I almost did a low slide twice where the bars did this weird loose feeling... I managed to straighten it out on both times and got off the bike to take a breather and access my error. Of course I was in a closed lot with no other vehicles around. I practice a couple times a week working on my slow speed maneuvers, quick stops, weaves and my leaning/turning maneuvers... I ended up scuffing the lower part of the fairing, grinding out the bottom of the foot peg and the second joint on the swing arm... I have no chicken strips and my tires are wearing on the sides faster then the middle... I'm not willing to damage the Connie so hence the want for a full on sport bike to go crazy in the turns with. High top speed really is irrelevant it's all about cornering and braking performance with equal power to weight ratio of the Connie... Which is equivalent to some of the modern 600cc super sport offerings.

A riding friend of mine (also an employee) rides a very nice Ducati 1098 and was looking for a track bike as he didn't want to "learn" (crash) on that bike.

He was also considering an R6 or GSXR 600.

He finally found a GSXR 750 for under $3,000 about 2 weeks ago with really good cosmetics so he bought a 2nd set of fairings to save the near new set.

It's true that you can pick up a good deal towards the end of the riding season but there is also more guys looking for deal and less people selling, so you do need to be quick (or lucky)

He went with Suzuki because it's well supported here and parts are easy to get new or used.

He will race at Mission (Vancouver) Seattle, and Portland so the 750 should be perfect for those tracks.

He is about 5'11' and 180lb so he could have gone with either the 600 or 750.

The guy who wins most of the races locally here rides a 2011 GSXR600 and only occasionally gets beaten by the liter bikes because Mission is a fairly tight track.,

http://www.modernmotorcycling.com/tmr/spero-1.htm he has also won everything in 2015 I believe.

So it comes down to the following, your size and weight, the tracks you will ride, your brand preference/loyalty and which local dealers you align yourself with.

If I was to ever race again I would ride a Suzuki because the dealer most involved at our local track is Modern motorcycles and are a Suzuki dealer here.

I also rode for a Suzuki dealer back in NZ and when starting out they sponsored me with parts discounts and gave rider coaching and bike setup help at the track which is all part of the experience.

So the model of bike may make a difference more so with the ongoing support and teams that you align with and will help if you decide to get more serious about racing.

Good luck.

David

Thanks David
Like I stated racing really isn't what I'm trying to get out of it. It's all about hitting some corners in a safer environment than public roads. I've maxed out the Connie on it's abilities (which are stellar for a 650lbs bike w/ no bags). I'm 5' 11" 190ish lbs at the moment too. I know a 600 would be right where I want to be in my riding needs.


Great pointers guys, thanks!

 

[Jedz123]

GSXR750 or any 636cc ZX6 from your list, Daytona 675 is the pick of the supersports litter though.

Gorgeous... But I wouldn't want to spend the coin on a bike like that. Kinda goes past the budget mark... And it's too pretty to slide across the taramc when I go down...

 

[Jedz123]

Of course, you could always go with a '98 R1 ...

I'm stepping out of the Carburated game, fuel injection and radial mounted brakes are the bee's knees and a necessary for the next bike. Plus I know how my FZ1 likes to lift the front wheel out of turns, I think a 600 will be a bit more manageable for me as I develop my technical skills.

...But damn the price is right on those things now. Crazy fast machines.

 

[Hayabuser]

Gorgeous... But I wouldn't want to spend the coin on a bike like that. Kinda goes past the budget mark... And it's too pretty to slide across the taramc when I go down...

Likely lots for sale near you for much less than new.... although the 2009-up bikes were the best ones, the first 675's were nothing to sneeze at. Even the earlier 600/650 Daytonas were good handling machines even if they didn't live up to the Japanese competition at the time.

GSX-R750 then, decision made.

 

[Guest]

I'm stepping out of the Carburated game, fuel injection and radial mounted brakes are the bee's knees and a necessary for the next bike. Plus I know how my FZ1 likes to lift the front wheel out of turns, I think a 600 will be a bit more manageable for me as I develop my technical skills.

...But damn the price is right on those things now. Crazy fast machines.

You would be surprised with a late model 600. I use to ride a guy that pitted with me's 06" 636 with an Ivan's tune , pipe and suspension work and that thing was a blast. I could break the back tire loose coming out of turn7 into 8 at Louden. I am no light weight as you know. All the bikes you listed would work well but plan on doing some suspension work . You are bigger and the bikes are not set up for us "big" guys. They are designed for little fellers. Also suspension and brakes are the best money spent. The bikes have plenty of power stock.

 

[Nessism]

All of those bikes are awesome. I'd look for the best deal you can find in your local area and base the decision that way. You really can't go wrong. If you find two bikes and need to make a decision between them I'd opt for whichever has better parts support.

 

[Jedz123]

You would be surprised with a late model 600. I use to ride a guy that pitted with me's 06" 636 with an Ivan's tune , pipe and suspension work and that thing was a blast. I could break the back tire loose coming out of turn7 into 8 at Louden. I am no light weight as you know. All the bikes you listed would work well but plan on doing some suspension work . You are bigger and the bikes are not set up for us "big" guys. They are designed for little fellers. Also suspension and brakes are the best money spent. The bikes have plenty of power stock.

Jim, I'll be chatting your ear off when I get closer to purchase time... I checked out that 07 FZ6 I was talking to you about, I just don't think it's going to be that great for track purpose. The guys selling it talked me out of it and talked me into waiting and going for an all out super sport. That's why I love going to ProCycle, they will hold off a sale to get me on the bike I actually will love to ride.
After I acquire one I'll also be enlisting you to help me dial it in and teach me in the ways of properly riding.

 

[Jedz123]

All of those bikes are awesome. I'd look for the best deal you can find in your local area and base the decision that way. You really can't go wrong. If you find two bikes and need to make a decision between them I'd opt for whichever has better parts support.

Prices are falling, they will bottom out around January... Especially if we have a really snowy winter. People can't get rid of their bikes fast enough so they can go buy that sled . I'm half thinking about a GSX-R 750 as Dave mentioned but don't want to be too overwhelmed by it. It really is going to boil down to what I can find for the price... I'll keep in mind about the aftermarket support as well... There is allot of GSX-R's out there.

 

[GS1150Pilot]

The Honda Hornet has a really competitive race series in the UK.

 

[8ball]

One thing about the R6. It is restricted out of the box. With the fly by wire the throttle doesn't open all the way (something like 85%). An ECU reflash transforms the bike. And it allows a ton of adjustment to be done. You can have the throttle plate restriction removed, alter the engine braking characteristics, load a fuel map on it, change the fan temp setting, enable a quick shifter (without having to use a Powercommander), Change the timing advance, and on 08 and up change when the variable intake velocity stacks lift. Usually you can get that done for around $150. Unfortunately you can't change the map without sending the ECU back to someone who has the flash equipment. (With fuel controllers like PowerCommander), you can modify the fuel map yourself with your laptop. But even if you have them unleash the rest of the features, you can still get a powerCommander so you can adjust the fueling for future mods, and such without sending the ECU in.

 

[Ray916MN]

I'd buy an SV650. Less body work to damage. Bullet proof. Unchanged for a long period of time so used OEM and performance parts are available for cheap. Widely raced, so there is a wealth of tuning and setup information available. Inexpensive and at the bottom of the depreciation cycle. Cheap to own and run and low depreciation cost. The perfect bike to use to learn on a track. Won't be as fast on the straights, but a well setup one should be able to hang with all the inline four 600s in the turns.

If you're going to be racing at Loudon, a well ridden SV650 will probably be capable of beating allot of 600s.

 

[Jedz123]

One thing about the R6. It is restricted out of the box. With the fly by wire the throttle doesn't open all the way (something like 85%). An ECU reflash transforms the bike. And it allows a ton of adjustment to be done. You can have the throttle plate restriction removed, alter the engine braking characteristics, load a fuel map on it, change the fan temp setting, enable a quick shifter (without having to use a Powercommander), Change the timing advance, and on 08 and up change when the variable intake velocity stacks lift. Usually you can get that done for around $150. Unfortunately you can't change the map without sending the ECU back to someone who has the flash equipment. (With fuel controllers like PowerCommander), you can modify the fuel map yourself with your laptop. But even if you have them unleash the rest of the features, you can still get a powerCommander so you can adjust the fueling for future mods, and such without sending the ECU in.

Thanks for the info 8ball! I'm really leaning hard on the R6 due to the fact it's loaded to the gills with technology. I really appreciate your input. Jury is still out but it will likely come down to cost and availability. Checked CL today and there are 7 R6's in the area that are priced $3500-$4500... When the time comes to buy I think I won't have any issue getting one.

I'd buy an SV650. Less body work to damage. Bullet proof. Unchanged for a long period of time so used OEM and performance parts are available for cheap. Widely raced, so there is a wealth of tuning and setup information available. Inexpensive and at the bottom of the depreciation cycle. Cheap to own and run and low depreciation cost. The perfect bike to use to learn on a track. Won't be as fast on the straights, but a well setup one should be able to hang with all the inline four 600s in the turns.

If you're going to be racing at Loudon, a well ridden SV650 will probably be capable of beating allot of 600s.

Like I said above... Won't be racing at all.. Just looking to ride a track hard and grow as a rider. The SV650 is a great torque bike but I'll likely be riding my super sport 80-90% of the time on public roads. It's going to be that bike to do 100 miles on or ride it out to the track for the day and ride it back with multiple breaks along the way. I just know I wouldn't be happy with a SV650. Just a dog when ridden flat out and for long rides, especially if I venture on an interstate. I know I'll be happier with an inline 4. My buddy has an 09 FZ6 which is a de-tuned R6 engine (98WHP at 13.5K RPM) and that's the type of power I'm looking to grab. Breaking 120mph is no problem on the Fizzy's I know its a problem with the SV650's. Thanks for the input but I really don't think the SV650 will mesh for my type of riding. Maybe an SV1100 though...

 

[Jedz123]

The Honda Hornet has a really competitive race series in the UK.

I'll look into this when I get home...

 

[lurch12_2000]

You wouldn't go wrong with this SV650 at half your budget. And you can carry a passenger a lot more comfortably than those other models occasionally if you want, too. I was tempted to look at it but the DL650 does everything I want to for now. The SV650 is light and good torque and will climb all those VT gap roads without a lot of hunting for the right gear and as nimble as you can push any bike in the corners on the street. 200+ mile tank range too and I bet the insurance is cheaper than those 600 models you mentioned. Ask Tas850g what he thinks of his at the track too. Let me know if you want me to check it out. Why worry about 120mph speed and losing your license anyway, right? Then having any bike is a moot point just sitting in the garage.

http://nh.craigslist.org/mcy/5261527532.html