Aside from looking at the wiring at the horn for something that could short to ground: Did you try disconnecting the horns??
Maybe the short to ground is inside one of the the horns.
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Blowing the Signals fuse - GS1100G
- Thread starter salty_monk
- Start date
Aside from looking at the wiring at the horn for something that could short to ground: Did you try disconnecting the horns??
Maybe the short to ground is inside one of the the horns.
I’m glad you’re here Dave, you too Jim! I think we need to go back to basics to make sure I’m doing everything right from the off. With electrics I know just enough to be dangerous!! Haha
I’ll you what I’ve done but if you can step by step for me I’d appreciate it.
Currently I have the battery connected with a meter (set to ohms) attached between the orange green (accessory side) at the fuse and the -ve at battery. I get 0.00 or perfect short. (With the 3 connectors in the headlight bucket that have orange /green connected - if I unplug all 3 connectors it goes open circuit).
if I connect a test list across the two fuse connections I get a constant light with ignition on. Nothing with it off.
Interestingly when I measure the headlight circuit the same way I get 0.01 (weird) until I switch on the ignition and then I get a “1” signalling open circuit which is what I’d expect.
I get. “1” signalling open circuit on the main fuse and the ignition and the accessory fuse tested the same way.
The only modification I have done is a relay mod. It’s switched by the stock ignition circuit (orange white cut by the fuse box) and pulls power from the stock spare accessory circuit (which is an always on) fed back into the orange white again near the fuse box back up to the coils). The heated grips are on the same relay but have an in-line 3amp fuse. I pick up a ground for the heated grips in the headlight bucket from memory.
Also to remember - this worked absolutely fine in the garage for weeks before I started riding it. It didn’t blow the first fuse until about 4 miles into the first ride.
On return to the garage a new fuse cured it. On the 2nd ride it blew within 1/2 mile. After that ride it would blow instantaneously.
Definitely something that developed.
I haven’t yet tried with the horns disconnected but I will. I also figure it’s logical to look for a short in the hand controls.
I’ll you what I’ve done but if you can step by step for me I’d appreciate it.
Currently I have the battery connected with a meter (set to ohms) attached between the orange green (accessory side) at the fuse and the -ve at battery. I get 0.00 or perfect short. (With the 3 connectors in the headlight bucket that have orange /green connected - if I unplug all 3 connectors it goes open circuit).
if I connect a test list across the two fuse connections I get a constant light with ignition on. Nothing with it off.
Interestingly when I measure the headlight circuit the same way I get 0.01 (weird) until I switch on the ignition and then I get a “1” signalling open circuit which is what I’d expect.
I get. “1” signalling open circuit on the main fuse and the ignition and the accessory fuse tested the same way.
The only modification I have done is a relay mod. It’s switched by the stock ignition circuit (orange white cut by the fuse box) and pulls power from the stock spare accessory circuit (which is an always on) fed back into the orange white again near the fuse box back up to the coils). The heated grips are on the same relay but have an in-line 3amp fuse. I pick up a ground for the heated grips in the headlight bucket from memory.
Also to remember - this worked absolutely fine in the garage for weeks before I started riding it. It didn’t blow the first fuse until about 4 miles into the first ride.
On return to the garage a new fuse cured it. On the 2nd ride it blew within 1/2 mile. After that ride it would blow instantaneously.
Definitely something that developed.
I haven’t yet tried with the horns disconnected but I will. I also figure it’s logical to look for a short in the hand controls.
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G
Guest
Guest
Another place to look is where the rear turn signal light wires are clipped under the rear fender. Had a similar problem a few years ago and a wire was nicked as it was hanging down a bit and was being chafed by the rear tire.
Yeah it’s not obviously there.. unless it’s caught on the bolts for the rear section when I installed it. I may pull that section off to have a look...
As a general rule you want to be careful with a ohm meter and not have any power anywhere else that you might probe. Modern ohm meters can probably protect themselves, but at the very least you can get erroneous results. The ohm meter typically uses a 9V battery to power the + lead and then looks at how much current is returned on the black lead to determine resistance. If you bike is powered by the 12V battery then current can flow due to this and screw up the ohmmeter reading. DISCONNECT THE BATTERY when using an Ohm meter.
I would suggest redoing the test above with the battery out and see if you get the same result. If all the following results are with a battery installed, i think you need to start over.
If you have a short on the O/G Signal circuit start removing all components on the SIGNAL Circuit till the short goes away. Remember the headlamp is the O/R circuit while Ignition is O/W. The reality if you can determine one component that when remove removes teh short then it doesn't matter what circuit is on.That tells you you have a shorted device. Ig removing everything doesn't do anything they there is a short in or at the harness somewhere.
Dan,
What I meant was to disconnect the horns and see if still does (or does not) blow the fuse immeadiatly all the time.
You did say it blows the fuse immedatily all the time, right? (as soon as turn on key I assume).
Usally I do recommend checking things with a meter (and harass folks that dont want to use a meter), but in this case of signal fuse blowing as soon as turn on key, I suspect a dead short in a horn, and easy way to narrow it down is to disconnect horns, replace fuse, turn key back on, if fuse blows, well then problem isnt the horn. If fuse still good, then reconnect one horn, check fuse, reconnect other horn, check fuse. If fuse blew then know problem is that horn. If fuse still good, try tapping on horns a few times, try operating horn just to rattle things some, then tapa few more times.
So try that, see what you find.
In tracking a short with an ohm meter ther is the complication that devices such as lights and such may appear as a short to your meter, especailly if you dont have much expereince using it. (meter with a 3 volt battery).
What I meant was to disconnect the horns and see if still does (or does not) blow the fuse immeadiatly all the time.
You did say it blows the fuse immedatily all the time, right? (as soon as turn on key I assume).
Usally I do recommend checking things with a meter (and harass folks that dont want to use a meter), but in this case of signal fuse blowing as soon as turn on key, I suspect a dead short in a horn, and easy way to narrow it down is to disconnect horns, replace fuse, turn key back on, if fuse blows, well then problem isnt the horn. If fuse still good, then reconnect one horn, check fuse, reconnect other horn, check fuse. If fuse blew then know problem is that horn. If fuse still good, try tapping on horns a few times, try operating horn just to rattle things some, then tapa few more times.
So try that, see what you find.
In tracking a short with an ohm meter ther is the complication that devices such as lights and such may appear as a short to your meter, especailly if you dont have much expereince using it. (meter with a 3 volt battery).
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Steve
GS Whisperer
A better way to check it would be to remove the fuse, connect a light bulb. A test light would work. If the light is ON, there is connection downstream. Disconnect things until the light goes off.
It would also be possible to use a meter, but if you are unfamiliar with using a meter, it is just far too easy to use it the wrong way and get confusing results.
.
It would also be possible to use a meter, but if you are unfamiliar with using a meter, it is just far too easy to use it the wrong way and get confusing results.
.
Ok I think I understand what I should be doing now. I did try the meter with battery disconnected but only the +ve side. I do have a test light that I had hooked up so that’s something I can use too and to try Dave’s idea with the horns should be super easy too....
let me have another swing at this!
Whilst I’m bummed the bike is out of commission I’ve had a good weekend on other jobs... had the mini stripped into a lot of pieces and that just went back together.. and a sump pump project went together much easier than I thought today too! The old pump looks like hell but it’s working well so far! All good, forward progress!
let me have another swing at this!
Whilst I’m bummed the bike is out of commission I’ve had a good weekend on other jobs... had the mini stripped into a lot of pieces and that just went back together.. and a sump pump project went together much easier than I thought today too! The old pump looks like hell but it’s working well so far! All good, forward progress!
It's still shorted with horns disconnected.
I went back to using a test light across the fuse connections as it seemed easier than a meter from what everyone here is saying.
I get a bright test light that goes dim (less short so the idiot lights etc come back alive) when I unplug the rev gauge connector (either the one in the harness or the one directly behind the gauge under the metal cover - that one doesn't include the gauge bulb lights) and the one that is just a loop from Orange green to grey - black connector. Has Orange white with a red trace in it also but I discounted them by accidentally cutting that Orange Green for that connector when opening the loom so it's definitely the Orange green, rejoining it and unplugging the connector instead has the same result) but activating a brake switch or the horn button will bring the test light back to full brightness again.
I haven't yet found a way to make the test light go out completely other than pulling the main fuse. It's always dimly light.
I had a look at the rear signals /light (pulled the rear cowl off) and unplugging them does nothing.
Dan
I went back to using a test light across the fuse connections as it seemed easier than a meter from what everyone here is saying.
I get a bright test light that goes dim (less short so the idiot lights etc come back alive) when I unplug the rev gauge connector (either the one in the harness or the one directly behind the gauge under the metal cover - that one doesn't include the gauge bulb lights) and the one that is just a loop from Orange green to grey - black connector. Has Orange white with a red trace in it also but I discounted them by accidentally cutting that Orange Green for that connector when opening the loom so it's definitely the Orange green, rejoining it and unplugging the connector instead has the same result) but activating a brake switch or the horn button will bring the test light back to full brightness again.
I haven't yet found a way to make the test light go out completely other than pulling the main fuse. It's always dimly light.
I had a look at the rear signals /light (pulled the rear cowl off) and unplugging them does nothing.
Dan
So , not the horns....
the test light in place of fuse is a good troubleshooting technique - if a few things are understood.
light on dim or about half is somewhat normal, is what expect if are other lights on in the circuit, think of it as the test light in series with the other lights. So the test light not going out is to be expected unless you remove all the lights and other devices from the circuit.
if is a dead short to ground somewhere in the circuit, that is when the test light will be on full brightness (and when would blow fuse if was a fuse), but the test light is only drawing current for how many watts it is, so can leave it that way while trying to find the short by disconnecting thing. When do remove the short the other lights come back on dim-half and test light go back to dim or half.
I suggest you connect the test light across the battery once so you can see what full brightness is.
You said it goes to full brite when operate the horn or brake, but I suspect that is not full brightness.
i am not entirely following what you were saying about having disconnected a certain wire (will need to reread a couple times - my poor reading comprehension). Will be back in a while if I can (have other things going on)
the test light in place of fuse is a good troubleshooting technique - if a few things are understood.
light on dim or about half is somewhat normal, is what expect if are other lights on in the circuit, think of it as the test light in series with the other lights. So the test light not going out is to be expected unless you remove all the lights and other devices from the circuit.
if is a dead short to ground somewhere in the circuit, that is when the test light will be on full brightness (and when would blow fuse if was a fuse), but the test light is only drawing current for how many watts it is, so can leave it that way while trying to find the short by disconnecting thing. When do remove the short the other lights come back on dim-half and test light go back to dim or half.
I suggest you connect the test light across the battery once so you can see what full brightness is.
You said it goes to full brite when operate the horn or brake, but I suspect that is not full brightness.
i am not entirely following what you were saying about having disconnected a certain wire (will need to reread a couple times - my poor reading comprehension). Will be back in a while if I can (have other things going on)
Ok that's good news. Looks like I'm making some progress then!
I have a short in the O/G going to the fuel gauge by the looks of it. Now I need to work out where the other one goes, I can't see it on the wiring diagram yet.
It's in a connector that goes to the Kill switch but it has a small loop of black wire on the other side connecting it to a grey wire that goes back into the main loom at the neck.
With both these O/G dis-connected I can insert a fuse & not have it blow when I operate brake lights, horn (I don't have signals connected at the front so I will plug those back in to test with the fuse too).
I have a short in the O/G going to the fuel gauge by the looks of it. Now I need to work out where the other one goes, I can't see it on the wiring diagram yet.
It's in a connector that goes to the Kill switch but it has a small loop of black wire on the other side connecting it to a grey wire that goes back into the main loom at the neck.
With both these O/G dis-connected I can insert a fuse & not have it blow when I operate brake lights, horn (I don't have signals connected at the front so I will plug those back in to test with the fuse too).
Solved it!!! 
On a whim I put a fuse back in to make sure it didn't blow with those connectors disconnected. No problems. I then connected back the O/G that I couldn't work out (it goes to the grey which does the gauge lights and rear tail). They work fine, brake lights, horns etc all work fine.
I connect back the Fuel gauge connector - POP!!
To further diagnose I unwrapped the wire between the two connectors - no problem. Then I put a meter on the gauge connector. Closed circuit between Orange (takes from the O/G) and the black white. I snipped the Orange and plugged the connector back in... Everything works fine.
GS1100G Tacho by salty_monk, on Flickr
GS1100G Tacho by salty_monk, on Flickr
GS1100G Tacho by salty_monk, on Flickr
So... how do I fix it or should I just replace? It doesn't seem easy to access & it's definitely shorted internally as the wires (that I can see are ok).
Now I have to spend an evening putting it all back together!! Grrr
On a whim I put a fuse back in to make sure it didn't blow with those connectors disconnected. No problems. I then connected back the O/G that I couldn't work out (it goes to the grey which does the gauge lights and rear tail). They work fine, brake lights, horns etc all work fine.
I connect back the Fuel gauge connector - POP!!
To further diagnose I unwrapped the wire between the two connectors - no problem. Then I put a meter on the gauge connector. Closed circuit between Orange (takes from the O/G) and the black white. I snipped the Orange and plugged the connector back in... Everything works fine.
GS1100G Tacho by salty_monk, on FlickrGS1100G Tacho by salty_monk, on FlickrGS1100G Tacho by salty_monk, on FlickrSo... how do I fix it or should I just replace? It doesn't seem easy to access & it's definitely shorted internally as the wires (that I can see are ok).
Now I have to spend an evening putting it all back together!! Grrr
This is one of the stupidest design flaws I've seen of Suzuki's... I can hear something rattling around. Look inside see a piece of metal, realise it's one of the deflector shields for the lightbulbs rattling around inside!
Forced the bezel off, withdrew the gauge & removed the deflector. Re-join the Orange wire & plug it in... short circuit now gone!
I guess these things are held in place by friction & what appears to be a small amount of glue! I think it had originally fallen down & was interfering with the needle assembly at the back causing my hanging needle & then fell further down when I rode touching the nut holding the orange wire and something on the body inside grounding it!
How weird & how annoying! Question I guess now is can I get the bezel back on without totally wrecking it & do I bother putting those deflectors back in or just leave them out.... Answers on a postcard!
Inside the GS1100G Tacho by salty_monk, on Flickr
The deflectors: (or maybe they are defectors as the went awol...)
Inside the GS1100G Tacho by salty_monk, on Flickr
Inside the GS1100G Tacho by salty_monk, on Flickr
How they should be fitted
Inside the GS1100G Tacho by salty_monk, on Flickr
How it was... the other one wasn't very secure either!
Inside the GS1100G Tacho by salty_monk, on Flickr
Inside the GS1100G Tacho by salty_monk, on Flickr
Forced the bezel off, withdrew the gauge & removed the deflector. Re-join the Orange wire & plug it in... short circuit now gone!
I guess these things are held in place by friction & what appears to be a small amount of glue! I think it had originally fallen down & was interfering with the needle assembly at the back causing my hanging needle & then fell further down when I rode touching the nut holding the orange wire and something on the body inside grounding it!
How weird & how annoying! Question I guess now is can I get the bezel back on without totally wrecking it & do I bother putting those deflectors back in or just leave them out.... Answers on a postcard!
Inside the GS1100G Tacho by salty_monk, on FlickrThe deflectors: (or maybe they are defectors as the went awol...)
Inside the GS1100G Tacho by salty_monk, on FlickrInside the GS1100G Tacho by salty_monk, on FlickrHow they should be fitted
Inside the GS1100G Tacho by salty_monk, on FlickrHow it was... the other one wasn't very secure either!
Inside the GS1100G Tacho by salty_monk, on FlickrInside the GS1100G Tacho by salty_monk, on Flickr
Good troubleshooting !
Good pics. Thanks for explaining.
I suspect those deflectors are needed to distribute the light around, rather than being brighter on the one edge.
Have heard of other folks here reassembling a gauge by recrimping that ring somehow.
Good pics. Thanks for explaining.
I suspect those deflectors are needed to distribute the light around, rather than being brighter on the one edge.
Have heard of other folks here reassembling a gauge by recrimping that ring somehow.
Good job Dan. Persistence indeed. That's what solving electrical shorts is all about; tracing wires until you find the bad one.
I'd glue those shields back on with epoxy. I've got some good industrial grade stuff should you want to go that way although run of the mill hardware store stuff should suffice.
I'd glue those shields back on with epoxy. I've got some good industrial grade stuff should you want to go that way although run of the mill hardware store stuff should suffice.
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