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Brake Fluid causing cracks

  • Thread starter Thread starter Brianjonesphoto
  • Start date Start date
B

Brianjonesphoto

Guest
I just picked up my bike from the $tealer tonight. I had them look at the front brake to see if they could get it bled better than I could. Well the didn't. I also noticed a few cracks in the gauge cluster. There weren't any cracks in it when I dropped it off. I call them on it and they said that there was some brake fluid on it and that's what caused it. Does that sound legit to anyone? It seems pretty far fetched to me. So now I'm out $90 and have a brakes that don't work any better that when I dropped them off and cracks in the cluster. Needless to say I'm less than happy. I've had nothing but problems with these guys. Too bad they are the onle non harley shop close to the house.
 
Let this be a lesson to all other GS owners: Never, ever, EVER let a shop touch a classic bike. NEVER!

I don't see any clouding or other evidence of chemical damage, so it looks to me like you were fed a tall tale. But you knew that already. Besides, how in the world would you get brake fluid over on the gauge cluster when bleeding brakes?

Guido the wrench monkey leaned against it or something -- I don't see evidence of an impact, so who knows what it could have been. It doesn't matter anyway. You'll never get the shop to replace or pay for the gauges, so just take satisfaction in knowing that they have seen the last dime they'll ever get from you or anyone you know unto the seventh generation. Swear a terrible oath to do all your own work from now on and seal it in used 10W-40 or fork oil.

Then go get a MityVac for $35 or so and follow the directions to bleed your brakes properly. You can't bleed front brakes any other way.
 
brake fluid is some pretty harsh stuff. really burns bad in your eyes, and in open cuts and such. great for removing paint. better hope they didn't get any on your tank. having said that, i'm pretty sure there are certain plastics that it can melt or penetrate. Can't say about cracks, suppose its possible.
That would really gripe me to see red. Stuff is vintage, and unobtainable.

question? If its a Harley shop thats close to town, does that make them bad mechanics or bad business men or something? and force you to visit only non-harley shops. Is this a washington thing? You need to find the right guys to work on it, no matter what color.
 
as far as bleeding goes. I've tried everything. Traditionial squeeze and open bleeder, vacuum, and pressure bleed from the MC. I think there's got to be a leak in the MC or something. I took it to the $tealer because I've spent many hours and about a quart of brake fluid trying to get the brakes feeling right. as it sits now the brakes engage about 1/3 of the way through the stroke anf firm up, but I can still bottom out the lever on the grip. Even the service manager said they feel pretty normal, but shouldn't be able to bottom out like that.

I'm going to take the newly rebiult MC apart and see if there's some dirt on the seals or anything.
 
nert said:
question? If its a Harley shop thats close to town, does that make them bad mechanics or bad business men or something? and force you to visit only non-harley shops. Is this a washington thing? You need to find the right guys to work on it, no matter what color.
Click to expand...

Maybe I'll give them a try if I can't get it any closer. I was in there once looking for an odd ball part on the off chance they might have one. I kind of got the feeling that I was putting them out asking for them to look for that might fit a non-harley. BTW they are a harley only shop.
 
Do your own maintenance

Do your own maintenance

I agree with Brian (bwringer). Working on these classic machines is not overly complicated. I will never let a shop do anything on my bike. Get the tools you need to do the work yourself. It'll probably cost less than Joe Greasemonkey will charge you for labor. If you get into a bind and need advice, that's what we're here for.
 
Brianjonesphoto said:
I just picked up my bike from the $tealer tonight. I had them look at the front brake to see if they could get it bled better than I could. Well the didn't. I also noticed a few cracks in the gauge cluster. There weren't any cracks in it when I dropped it off. I call them on it and they said that there was some brake fluid on it and that's what caused it. Does that sound legit to anyone? It seems pretty far fetched to me. So now I'm out $90 and have a brakes that don't work any better that when I dropped them off and cracks in the cluster. Needless to say I'm less than happy. I've had nothing but problems with these guys. Too bad they are the onle non harley shop close to the house.
Click to expand...

The picture of the gauge shows crazing of the plastic cover. Crazing is stress related cracks on plastic. It could have been caused by a chemical such as brake fluid, but it can also have many other causes such as impacts, temperature changes, etc.. It's not uncommon to find crazing on the instrument panel on old bikes which have never had brake fluid touch them. It's usually just age related.
 
Not sure about your '83 550, but on my '82 850 the gauge covers are glass. You could soak it in brake fluid for weeks and it would do nothing.

I started wrenching on machines 30 years ago partly because I enjoy it, but also because shops didn't fix things right and sometimes they broke things.
 
Do we have all the information?
What other work was done to prompt the blood letting? Did you install new brake pads? If so where the rotor(s) machined? Did you open a line on the brake system or have a leak to require brake bleeding? I have to agree with bwringer, (i think that makes 3 times today) unless its a classic mechanic with a classic appreciation. Fix it yourself. (or with help from gsresources). If you didn't previously open the sytem, have a leak or change a line or something your system should have been good. if you just installed new pads, with out machining the rotors, the brake "pedal" will be a little soft and long stroked initialy. you have to burn the hair off and seat the pads with the rotors. Could take a couple hundred miles depending on your driving style.
Perhaps your bleeding method, needed some additional clarification. I use the simple squeeze and bleed method. Nothing wrong with it, i can make it work. What i have discovered, unlike bleeding an automobile, where you start bleeding at the furthest point from the master cylinder, the banjo joint at the GS master cylinder needs to be bled first, then follow it on down to the calipers. Don't forget the rotor and pad burn-in.
 
Brianjonesphoto said:
I took it to the $tealer because I've spent many hours and about a quart of brake fluid trying to get the brakes feeling right.
Click to expand...

You've only used a quart of brake fluid so far? :? Sorry, I just went through the whole bleeding thing after rebuilding my Master cylinder. It was still pretty spongy after the first quart. Lever travel was about 2/3 before firm. But after riding for awhile, and then re-bleeding twice, it's gotten better. Now about 1/2 lever to firm. I may have to give it another go. I still have the better part of a quart of fluid left:)

I know how you feel, but unless something is really wrong with the MC, then you might have to just keep at it. I think yours also has the anti-dive plumbing like mine does? That certainly doesn't help matters.

Does your lever pump up at all with repeated squeezes? That is a pretty good indication of trapped air I would think. The fact that it firms up at 1/3 lever, but still bottoms, sounds like you're compressing a lot of air, or fluid is leaking around the MC piston. Is your piston assembly assembled correctly? Does the lever go to the grip as quick as you pull it with lots of bounce back, or does it move slower?

On mine, I have an additional complexity. I have to wonder how much, if any extra lever is needed due to the hydraulic brake light switch I installed. The lever felt firmer after I installed the braided steel brake lines, and before I did the master cylinder and switch. I any case, I can't get the lever close to bottoming, so I'm OK for now.

If you have to take it to a dealer, I definitely recommend Gervasi's motorsports on Broadway in South Everett. I know it's probably farther, but I like their work, although I only had tires mounted. They do a whole lot more repair work than bike sales. I think they were an independent repair shop not to long ago, although they carry the kawasakis line now.

I'm not too far away if you want me to try and help. I have a lot of extra brake fluid. Send me a PM.
 
Last edited:
nert said:
Do we have all the information?
What other work was done to prompt the blood letting? Did you install new brake pads? If so where the rotor(s) machined? Did you open a line on the brake system or have a leak to require brake bleeding? I have to agree with bwringer, (i think that makes 3 times today) unless its a classic mechanic with a classic appreciation. Fix it yourself. (or with help from gsresources). If you didn't previously open the sytem, have a leak or change a line or something your system should have been good. if you just installed new pads, with out machining the rotors, the brake "pedal" will be a little soft and long stroked initialy. you have to burn the hair off and seat the pads with the rotors. Could take a couple hundred miles depending on your driving style.
Perhaps your bleeding method, needed some additional clarification. I use the simple squeeze and bleed method. Nothing wrong with it, i can make it work. What i have discovered, unlike bleeding an automobile, where you start bleeding at the furthest point from the master cylinder, the banjo joint at the GS master cylinder needs to be bled first, then follow it on down to the calipers. Don't forget the rotor and pad burn-in.
Click to expand...

Brake system was old and sat for 20 years so I thought I should refresh them.
Here's what's been done:
Calipers rebuilt
New brake lines Rubber Dual lines from the MC (no Y)
New pison and seals in the MC
New Pads
Rotor has not been machined

I've done all the other work on the bike including replacing the exhaust cam. But I was getting frustrated that I couldn't get the brake working so I thought I'd let someone else work on it.

How do you tell when you have all of the air out in the bandjo at the MC? I've cracked it open and fluid came out, but how would I know if there's still air in there?

I've alway had the best luck with cars using a pressure bleeder. you have an endless supply of fluid and all the air usually pushes out easily.

If there's something I should try let me know

denydog said:
If you have to take it to a dealer, I definitely recommend Gervasi's motorsports on Broadway in South Everett. I know it's probably farther, but I like their work, although I only had tires mounted. They do a whole lot more repair work than bike sales. I think they were an independant repair shop not to long ago, although they carry the kawasakis line now.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advise. I'm never doing business with smokey point cycle barn again.
 
Boondocks said:
...it can also have many other causes such as impacts, temperature changes, etc..
Click to expand...

That could explain it. I wan't too happy when I picked it up and found the bike sitting outside exposed as the temp was dropping. I was in the low 40's high 30's when I got there. I'd never leave it outside all day long.
 
I'm not too sure about the "no Y" thing. By eliminating the Y junction and running two lines straight from the MC (which is what I'm assuming from the info), you're having to push more brake fluid with the same size MC. In effect, there's more fluid to be moved by the current setup than with the original.

I was going to suggest old brake lines about to burst when I read your post about replacing them and eliminating the "Y".

Basically, what I'm trying to say is maybe with your current brake line setup there is too much volume in the lines for the MC to handle. I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time, just my $.02.
 
Pull your brake lever back to the bar and tie it there with a rag or some such overnight. If that dont do it disassemble the master cylinder and check the bleed hole at the bottom of the reservoir.

Dink
 
Taken from a prevoius post from chef1366
"Your brake lever doesn't push the piston all the way into the port of the M/C. First remove the brake light switch and then the brake lever. With the M/C cover off push the piston all the way in with a screw driver or something similar. I used the old piston since I was rebuilding it. When I pushed it all the way in I got one big bubble to surface and I was on my way. This was after an hour or so of pumping a dead dead lever and cussing out loud. (I know I'm gonna hear it after that last sentence)"

origional thread http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=98788

plastic gets old and cracks easy, biff pushed too hard or dropped something on it.
 
Brian, you now have a double banjo at the master cylinder right? I'll assume the banjo bolt is dual ported, but is it long enough?

I recently replaced my old rubber lines with SS. The new banjo bolts that came with the set were all just a little shorter than the originals. This made a difference at the master cylinder. I'm not sure why...I didn't tear into it. But with the new banjo bolt installed, I squeezed, and squeezed for ever and got no fluid out of the master cylinder. I even replaced the whole master cylinder assy with a spare. It was only after I put the original banjo bolt in, that I finally got fluid to flow to the calipers.
 
I Assume the bolt is long enough. I used the double bolt that acme off the Y junction
 
Brianjonesphoto said:
I Assume the bolt is long enough. I used the double bolt that acme off the Y junction
Click to expand...

I assumed that, too. Took me a while, and a lot of pumping before I figured it out.

Are you getting any fluid down to the calipers at all? If yes, then my suggestion may not apply to you. If no, then I would suggest that banjo bolt at the master cylinder may not be long enough.
 
Tom MLC said:
I assumed that, too. Took me a while, and a lot of pumping before I figured it out.

Are you getting any fluid down to the calipers at all? If yes, then my suggestion may not apply to you. If no, then I would suggest that banjo bolt at the master cylinder may not be long enough.
Click to expand...

Yes I've get fluid to the calipers and I think all of the air is out of the system. I don't know it you saw my other thread, but I think I found the problem. I took the MC apart again and found a large pit in the bore. I think this is where the pressure has been bypassing. I'm going to replace the MC.
 
Brianjonesphoto said:
Yes I've get fluid to the calipers and I think all of the air is out of the system. I don't know it you saw my other thread, but I think I found the problem. I took the MC apart again and found a large pit in the bore. I think this is where the pressure has been bypassing. I'm going to replace the MC.
Click to expand...

Brian if the bore of the master cylinder is damaged go to a brake specialist in your area and get the m/c stainless steel sleeved, takes about a week to do,isn't expensive & the cylinder will never need to be kitted again.

Dink
 
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