Breaker Points or Dyna Innition

[GS1000S]

I recently had ignition problems with my 79' GS850. 1 Condensor went bad and both coils were leaking. One coil was breaking down badly when it got hot, leading to intermitent spark on 2-3 cylinders about 15 min. into a ride. I choose to purchase a new points set from Z1 Enterprises, 2 of their black Dyna Coils, and the black Dyna plug wire set. End of problem and the bike runs great. I think the Dyna S is a good unit but until now I've had good luck with the points in this bike for almost 20 yrs. and I didn't want to spend the additional $$.




Pat

 

[Mike Ski]

i have purchased more than one replacement electronic ignition module. I have also been broken down and stuck with bad sensors where the points might have been.

Electronic ignitions can leave you stranded too. Point ignitions are more likely to need readjusting than to leave you stuck. They also give you lots of warning as they wear and close up / burn.

No ignition system is free of potential failure. On my gs1000g in maine, the po replaced the suzuki electronic ignition with a dyna. I wonder if it was an upgrade, or if it was a needed repair.

I would rather have electronic, but i don't mind points.

what would be some signs of a points ignition failing?

 

[Mike Ski]

well once again i would like to thank everyone for their excellent input. you guys are giving me alot to think about. i would love to go electronic, but that is gonna be a tough nut to crack right now. i really wasn't looking for a bike this year.....it kinda fell in my hands for free. after new tires, brakes, boiling and treating the tank, new fuel line and filter, new paint, and countless hours of research on this site..............the wife is gonna kill me......lol i just ordered a new set of points and condensers off of e-bay. i guess i will get the coils and possibly go with the dyna over the winter.

 

[850 Combat]

what would be some signs of a points ignition failing?

Normal points wear makes the gap less and less as time goes on. In my experience, that will eventually cause a miss at high loads and/or high RPM.

 

[Steve]

Chef, would the 3ohm green coils work better with the dyna than the black dual output 5 ohm ones. i thought the bigger....the better.

Yes, bigger is usually better, but you need to make sure you are measuring the right thing.

Ohms are a measure of RESISTANCE to electrical current. The ignition system works with coils, that are basically just transformers. When current flows through them, a magnetic field is generated. When that current is stopped, the magnetic field collapses and a spark is generated. With a points-based ignition system, the flow of current is controlled by the points. If a LOT of current flows, there is also a little bit of sparking at the points as they open and close, so they used coils with a higher resistance to limit the current flow through the points. Unfortunately, this also limits the current through the coils and results in a less-powerful spark. With electronic ignition systems, the flow of current is controlled by transistors. With the proper selection of components (thankfully already done by the manufacturers), they can handle more current, so you can use coils with lower resistance. This lower resistance allows more current through the coils, resulting in a more-powerful spark. The electronic ignition system will also control the lower current through the higher-resistance stock coils with no problem, it just won't make the spark any bigger because the coils are still the limiting factor.

Now, back to your original thought ... yes, bigger is better, but you want to be concerned with CURRENT, not RESISTANCE.
Higher resistance will result in lower current.

.

 

[GS1000S]

well once again i would like to thank everyone for their excellent input. you guys are giving me alot to think about. i would love to go electronic, but that is gonna be a tough nut to crack right now. i really wasn't looking for a bike this year.....it kinda fell in my hands for free. after new tires, brakes, boiling and treating the tank, new fuel line and filter, new paint, and countless hours of research on this site..............the wife is gonna kill me......lol i just ordered a new set of points and condensers off of e-bay. i guess i will get the coils and possibly go with the dyna over the winter.

If I were you I'd start with the new points and condensors first. Make sure that they are gapped correctly and timed to spec., and see how your bike performs. Don't forget to lube the rubbing blocks. Then check to see IF you've got a good strong spark at that time on each of of the leads to your plugs. You can us an old used plug with the groung electrode spread wide and lay it on the fins of the motor where it can get a good ground and observe the spark while cranking and while running. If you've got a good spark on all 4 cylinders and it still runs poorly you may have some carb. problems also. Also, make sure that the cylinders that weren't firing don't have fouled spark plugs now.
Pat

 

[Mike Ski]

If I were you I'd start with the new points and condensors first. Make sure that they are gapped correctly and timed to spec., and see how your bike performs. Don't forget to lube the rubbing blocks. Then check to see IF you've got a good strong spark at that time on each of of the leads to your plugs. You can us an old used plug with the groung electrode spread wide and lay it on the fins of the motor where it can get a good ground and observe the spark while cranking and while running. If you've got a good spark on all 4 cylinders and it still runs poorly you may have some carb. problems also. Also, make sure that the cylinders that weren't firing don't have fouled spark plugs now.
Pat

thanks for the info....i just have one question. What do you mean by lube the rubbing blocks? this whole points thing is real new to me.

 

[GS1000S]

The rubbing block is the portion of the ignition point that contacts the cam on the advance mechanism and opens and closes the points. Put a little heavy grease on the leading edge of this area next to the cam. Also clean the cam and apply a little lube there and on the felt applicator.

I found this and it may help you: http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=136832&highlight=points+installation

A few posts down is a link to a shop manual. You can set the points statically with merely a test light(after they are gapped correctly). Or use an electronic timing light. Make sure you turn the engine only in its forward direction with a wrench.

Hope this helps. Pat

 

[Rover]

well once again i would like to thank everyone for their excellent input. you guys are giving me alot to think about. i would love to go electronic, but that is gonna be a tough nut to crack right now. i really wasn't looking for a bike this year.....it kinda fell in my hands for free. after new tires, brakes, boiling and treating the tank, new fuel line and filter, new paint, and countless hours of research on this site..............the wife is gonna kill me......lol i just ordered a new set of points and condensers off of e-bay. i guess i will get the coils and possibly go with the dyna over the winter.

Looking at your first post you mentioned your tank was full of rust. Have the rust particles contaminated the petcock and carbs? This would lead to ruff running and should addressed as one of the first orders of business.
A new petcock is about 45.00 from Z-1. Carb cleaning is well documented on this site with tutorials on Bikecliff's site.

 

[Rudeman]

Stock Coils Generally reliable...

Stock Coils Generally reliable...

...but I managed to find the rare one that failed 100 mile into an 1100 mile trip.

I now have Accel Super Coils but I hate them. They were originally made for H-Ds and even though they were packaged for Japanese inline fours they had to be jerry-rigged to make them fit. I like my set-up to be clean as well as functional. I am going to Dyna greenies as soon as I get to that stage in my resto. Were it not for the failure of the lone stock coil I would have just stayed with the factory units. As far as the issue of plug wires is concerned...NGK makes plug wire splicers and there are probably others out there that will do the job.

I used platinum plugs and they were no better performance-wise than conventional plugs. Those NGK plugs are hard to beat; I even use them in my Mercury outboard.

This is where I get my plugs: http://www.clubplug.net/retail_complete_ngk.html

 

[tkent02]

Electronic ignitions are nice, easy, they work fine long time. I have them on several bikes, no worries. Dyna S, the later stock Suzuki systems, it's all good.

If I was setting up a bike to go around the world like that guy on the GS850 I would go with points for sure. If it craps out it can be repaired with simple hand tools, I can look at it and understand exactly how it works, and what needs to be done to fix it. Bring a spare set of points, a condenser and a screwdriver and I will make it there, no matter where "there" is.