Cartridge emulators, RaceTech springs, anti-dive Q's

[posplayr]

Thanks all this helps me focus a lot

Thanks all this helps me focus a lot

Mark: The best thing to do with the anti-dive is block it off and ignore it.

I though in reading by drilling the holes you are disabling the anti-dive. I guess you are still allowing brake pressure to go to the anti dive. Well the easiest thing for me to do is to solder the banjo bolt so there is no braking compliance to the system from the anti-dive.

I could also fashion some little aluminum plates to go between the anti dive unit and the fork to block off any potential oil leaks. I'll probably do this later. Unfortunately the o-rings are on the wrong side so I would also have to make a flat gasket.

Mark: I would also try 2 turns first, the emulators transform

Joe: The handling was very nice when pushed hard but the overall ride quality was too stiff. I have changed to 10 weight oil and backed the emulator setting to the recommended setting (2 3/4 turns?)

Joe : You want to check your records? The manual says 2 turns is factory. If you are at 2 3/4 you added 3/4 turn.

Mac says he has the full 4 turns, but I bet he spends some days at the track.

How about me trying 2 1/2???? I figure that is getting to the harsh side and if it is too harsh I can always come back.

Mark: Given your weight, I think you will need some spacers, though.

Well that why I figure I'll see if I can get away will stuffing the full spring into the tube like it is. As comes from progressive for the 82-83 GS1100E (EZ/ED) there is no spacer required. The emulator is 14 mm stack height and the adjuster allows for 13 mm of range. At the lowest adjuster setting if I can get the spring in I figure I'm not going to be too far off and I won't have to end up cutting the spring 8-[.

I can save the blacksmithing for later...

Mark: You know to cut the end with the closer coil spacing, right?:grin: Also, make sure you close and grind the end flat after cutting it.

I know how cut (diamond blade Makita), I know how to grind (bench grinder or same Makita), How to you close the flat end???? Heat, or a hammer???

Joe: I started out with a stiffer emulator setting, around 3 turns and 20 weight oil. ....... I have changed to 10 weight oil

I guess I'll get some 10 wt oil. Let me know how it feels.

Thanks this is really helping reduce the range of my n-dimensional search (spring stack height, rates, emulator preload, fork oil, anti dive neuter)

Posplayr

 

[posplayr]

QuaiChangKane

QuaiChangKane

I figure that disabling the actuator - even with the two extra brake lines - will still give an incredible increase in brake firmness while retaining the stock look.

I'm just thinking of cutting a sheetmetal plate to fit between the actuator and the fork leg with a gasket on each side - maybe even welded into place to eliminate any chance of leakage...

Did you ever get those plates made? I'm looking at needing some.

Posplayr

 

[Mark M]

I though in reading by drilling the holes you are disabling the anti-dive. I guess you are still allowing brake pressure to go to the anti dive.

<snip>

I know how cut (diamond blade Makita), I know how to grind (bench grinder or same Makita), How to you close the flat end???? Heat, or a hammer???

Posplayr

You do disable the compression increase caused by the anti-dive, but the brake fluid side still sees the extra hosing and fluid. When I went to braided SS lines, I simply used a 2 line setup and blocked off the anti-dive with a blind banjo bolt. Better lever feel and easier bleeding all in one change.

To close and grind, I heated the cut end with a torch and then pushed it onto the next coil. When it cooled, I ground it flat. You will never get that end flat with a hammer without heat as well.

Mark

 

[ironsheik]

So I'm mainly considering brake and suspension upgrades for my 83 gs1100e and this is all great info so far but the info here:
http://www.thegsresources.com/garage/gs_braketip.htm
and in subsequent threads I've found so far say that the anti-dive unit can just remain on the forks after taking them out of the loop. I like that idea best. Can't I just put a screw in place of the banjo bolt on the AD and be done with it?

Josh

 

[ironsheik]

You do disable the compression increase caused by the anti-dive, but the brake fluid side still sees the extra hosing and fluid. When I went to braided SS lines, I simply used a 2 line setup and blocked off the anti-dive with a blind banjo bolt. Better lever feel and easier bleeding all in one change.

I believe you just answered my question in the same breath I was asking, right?

Josh

 

[Joe Nardy]

I though in reading by drilling the holes you are disabling the anti-dive. I guess you are still allowing brake pressure to go to the anti dive. Well the easiest thing for me to do is to solder the banjo bolt so there is no braking compliance to the system from the anti-dive.

I could also fashion some little aluminum plates to go between the anti dive unit and the fork to block off any potential oil leaks. I'll probably do this later. Unfortunately the o-rings are on the wrong side so I would also have to make a flat gasket.

The easiest way to disable the anti-dive is to replace the single banjo bolt on the anti-dive unit with a regular bolt, use the single banjo bolt in place of the double on the caliper, and toss the extra brake line.

Joe : You want to check your records? The manual says 2 turns is factory. If you are at 2 3/4 you added 3/4 turn.

This was off the top of my head, that's why I put the '?' after the setting. I am now back at whatever the instructions say to use for normal street use. I think I was at the track setting before.

Thanks,
Joe

 

[posplayr]

Ok I think I'm getting it now

Ok I think I'm getting it now

Joe: The easiest way to disable the anti-dive is to replace the single banjo bolt on the anti-dive unit with a regular bolt, use the single banjo bolt in place of the double on the caliper, and toss the extra brake line.

That sounds the most straight forward, however I lose that OEM look :shock:.

In order to keep the line, I have to keep the same banjo and bleeder else it will never bleed. More complicated to get that OEM look .

I did buy a piece of brass 1/32" plate and some gasket material to block off the oil passage from fork bottom to the anti dive unit. I then keep the guts in a plastic baggy rather than rusting in the anti dive unit.

Mark: You do disable the compression increase caused by the anti-dive, but the brake fluid side still sees the extra hosing and fluid. When I went to braided SS lines, I simply used a 2 line setup and blocked off the anti-dive with a blind banjo bolt. Better lever feel and easier bleeding all in one change.:smile:

To close and grind, I heated the cut end with a torch and then pushed it onto the next coil. When it cooled, I ground it flat. You will never get that end flat with a hammer without heat as well.

Thanks for taking the time to explain that. I was sorta guessing that but you laid that to rest.

Joe: This was off the top of my head, that's why I put the '?' after the setting. I am now back at whatever the instructions say to use for normal street use. I think I was at the track setting before.

OK sounds like I should do just what Mark said in the first place: leave it at 2 turns 8-[.

Thanks you guys that saved me a whole lot of time.

Posplayr

 

[Joe Nardy]

Okay, I got the GS back together and went for a short spin. The front is definitely softer and more compliant but certainly not mushy. It soaks up bumps noticeably better and there's a bit more dive under braking but it's nowhere near bottoming out. I'd still call it a sporty firm ride. If you like a softer ride you might want to back off the damping screw a bit more or try a lighter oil. For my 225 lbs. and riding style I think it is going to be pretty nice. This is just an observation from a quick ride but it is definitely an improvement over where I was.

Thanks,
Joe

 

[posplayr]

Ok Joe

Ok Joe

So in rereading your posts, you have an 83 GS1100ED with Progressive springs and the Racetech emulators (my same setup :-D).

You have:
* the emulators set back to factory stock (two turns)
* 10 weight oil

So the questions are:
* IS the above correct?
* How much did you cut from your springs or add spacers?
* Where do you have the preload adjustment on the fork?

So it sounds like it is a nice (firm) street ride, but not really race setup for your 225 lbs. At my 200 lbs, the same settings would probably be a little firmer but maybe a little more sporty. :-D

P.S. I think I have my anti-dives sorted out and will post what I did a little later. I'm planning on making a lot of progress this weekend.

Posplayr

 

[Joe Nardy]

So in rereading your posts, you have an 83 GS1100ED with Progressive springs and the Racetech emulators (my same setup :-D).

You have:
* the emulators set back to factory stock (two turns)
* 10 weight oil

So the questions are:
* IS the above correct?
* How much did you cut from your springs or add spacers?
* Where do you have the preload adjustment on the fork?

So it sounds like it is a nice (firm) street ride, but not really race setup for your 225 lbs. At my 200 lbs, the same settings would probably be a little firmer but maybe a little more sporty. :-D

P.S. I think I have my anti-dives sorted out and will post what I did a little later. I'm planning on making a lot of progress this weekend.

Posplayr

To the best of my knowledge the above settings are correct. I'm not the best at documenting my settings and have a very poor memory. I know I originally tried the settings recommended for track duty and the Race Tech site recommended 20 weight oil. I believe I backed the emulators down to the street setting, maybe just a bit firmer. I am positive I am using Motorex 10 weight oil.

I did not cut anything from my springs and do not use any spacers. The preload adjusters are at their lightest setting.

Thanks,
Joe

 

[posplayr]

Joe

Joe

Thanks Joe, it sounds like I should at least be able to stuff those progressives into the tubes including the emulators without cutting them down. 8-[

I will see how that static ride height is before doing anything else. Since the adjuster is 13 mm of range v.s. the emulator 14 mm stack height, you are basically ridding on the stiffest setting having not done anything to the spring. If I have to cut my spring, I will have it done or just get a racetech spring rather than the progressive.:-|

As far as the emulator, I think I have 15 wt oil in my other bike (and on the shelf) and so at the stock emulator setting It would be stiffer than yours at 10 wt oil. I'll try that as my GS750 seems to ride OK (but what do I know):?.

Thanks again you have been more helpful that one is to expect.

Posplayr

 

[Joe Nardy]

Thanks Joe, it sounds like I should at least be able to stuff those progressives into the tubes including the emulators without cutting them down. 8-[

I will see how that static ride height is before doing anything else. Since the adjuster is 13 mm of range v.s. the emulator 14 mm stack height, you are basically ridding on the stiffest setting having not done anything to the spring. If I have to cut my spring, I will have it done or just get a racetech spring rather than the progressive.:-|

As far as the emulator, I think I have 15 wt oil in my other bike (and on the shelf) and so at the stock emulator setting It would be stiffer than yours at 10 wt oil. I'll try that as my GS750 seems to ride OK (but what do I know):?.

Thanks again you have been more helpful that one is to expect.

Posplayr

If I remember correctly the springs stuck out about one inch from the top of the fork tubes. I'm pretty sure my static sag is around 1.5 inches. I'll try to check it tomorrow and let you know..............

Thanks,
Joe

 

[posplayr]

Suspension Update GS1100ED

Suspension Update GS1100ED

Here is a pic I took on the Yosemite Trip while overlooking Lake Tahoe. The bike ran great and handled even better. No doubt the racetech emulators are a major contributor. Chef helped me get her started and he dialed in the carbs. We traded of for much of the trip. He said it was the best handling GS he had ridden.

In summary what I did for the front forks:

All new rubber and Teflon parts:
Buffed the chrome tubes to remove all machine marks and minimize roughness of rust pits (uppers only)

GS1100E Racetech emulators (factory setting on adjuster) #FEGV-S3301
GS1100E Progressive springs (un cut)
No spacer (just the 14 mm emulator)
Static preload adjustment at the lightest (top of 13 mm range)
15 wt fork oil
Blocked off the anti-dive oil passage to the fork with a plate.
Blocked off the anti-dive banjo at the brake calipers (anti dive brake line is dry and non functional)

Other suspension mods:

Fork brace (also the stock brace under the fender)
SU-143 Ohlins on the rear
Pirrelli Sport Demons 130-90-17 and 100-90-19

Thanks a lot to Joe and Mike for letting me get this right the first time.

Posplayr

 

[posplayr]

FYI 35 mm emulators

FYI 35 mm emulators

Quote:
I used the Racetech FEGV s3301 gold valve emulators. Worked great. I didn't even need spring spacers because the emulator compressed the springs just enough for a 150 lb rider (me).
Does the Skunk have 37 mm forks? The FEGV S3301 is listed for the 82-83 only on the Racetech website.

BTW I have a 81 GS750 with 35 mm forks and I found this Ebay listing for emulators that are probably knock off's of the Racetech units (1/2 price).
They are for a 35 mm CB750 and the CB750 cross references to the FEGV S3001 emulator. I'll report back after I get them installed.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=007&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=170239483807&rd=1

 

[Silvermachine81]

I'll report back after I get them installed.

Yes please do, Although I own an 1100 it would still be good to hear if these knock-offs as as good as the real thing......From a person who has both.
Very cool opportunity for everyone here who may what to save some pennys in the future

 

[Colin Green]

Quote:
I used the Racetech FEGV s3301 gold valve emulators. Worked great. I didn't even need spring spacers because the emulator compressed the springs just enough for a 150 lb rider (me).
Does the Skunk have 37 mm forks? The FEGV S3301 is listed for the 82-83 only on the Racetech website.

BTW I have a 81 GS750 with 35 mm forks and I found this Ebay listing for emulators that are probably knock off's of the Racetech units (1/2 price).
They are for a 35 mm CB750 and the CB750 cross references to the FEGV S3001 emulator. I'll report back after I get them installed.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...STRK:MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=170239483807&rd=1

Hey there Jim.

Did you try the knock off emulators?? How did they go?

 

[posplayr]

Hey there Jim.

Did you try the knock off emulators?? How did they go?

Colin,
The only knock offs I have been able to find are for the 35 mm forks (like a GS750).

The emulators for the 37mm GS1100E and 41mm for the GSXR 1100E have been Racetech stuff.

I have not installed the knock off emulators for the GS750 yet. They seem to be of as good a quality as the racetech stuff even have more understandable instructions than RT.

Jim

 

[Macmatic]

I've got a set of the emulators for 35mm forks and I'm wondering if I could use them on my 37mm GS750 forks. I have some washers that are a perfect fit OD for the top of the damper tubes and just a hair small on the ID for the emulators to drop into. Two minutes with a file and I'd have 2mm high collars that would hold the emulators perfectly centered and when the emulators are centered the spring makes good solid contact all around the top surface. $160 isn't in the budget right now but $60 might work...

I'm guessing the emulators for 37mm forks MIGHT have more port area. If that is the case I wonder if you could compensate by running a thinner oil or using a softer preload like 1.75 - 2 turns instead or 2 - 2.5.

Posplayr, do you have or remember the install instructions for the 37mm fork units? I want to drill a spare set of 750 damper rods while I have those toys out. Do they call for 3x sets of 8mm holes like the 35mm "aftermarket" parts do?
There is also a part called the Oil Lock Piece (Part 22, 83 gs750es) which is kind of upside down mushroom shaped on the 750 forks and has four ports around the bottom. Did you have this on your forks and did you drill it out also?

/\/\ac

 

[posplayr]

I've got a set of the emulators for 35mm forks and I'm wondering if I could use them on my 37mm GS750 forks. I have some washers that are a perfect fit OD for the top of the damper tubes and just a hair small on the ID for the emulators to drop into. Two minutes with a file and I'd have 2mm high collars that would hold the emulators perfectly centered and when the emulators are centered the spring makes good solid contact all around the top surface. $160 isn't in the budget right now but $60 might work...

I'm guessing the emulators for 37mm forks MIGHT have more port area. If that is the case I wonder if you could compensate by running a thinner oil or using a softer preload like 1.75 - 2 turns instead or 2 - 2.5.

Posplayr, do you have or remember the install instructions for the 37mm fork units? I want to drill a spare set of 750 damper rods while I have those toys out. Do they call for 3x sets of 8mm holes like the 35mm "aftermarket" parts do?
There is also a part called the Oil Lock Piece (Part 22, 83 gs750es) which is kind of upside down mushroom shaped on the 750 forks and has four ports around the bottom. Did you have this on your forks and did you drill it out also?

/\/\ac

I'll look if I still have the instructions for the 37mm fork emulators; in the meantime here is what I did for the 41mm forks.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1269644&postcount=5

 

[Macmatic]

I found a thread on another forum talking about adapting the XS emulators into 41mm tubes and it seemed to work out for him. I just ordered myself up a set. Great if you can find the install but it looks like 6x 8mm holes ought to be fine.

Posplayr, what weight fork oil are you running with the emulators? Any plans to go up or down in weight?

Starting at post #57
http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25786&page=4

/\/\ac