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Catastrophic engine failure (lubrication helps engines)

  • Thread starter Thread starter MrZig
  • Start date Start date
yeah, but does it visibly "droop"? There might be a bit of loosening, but the cam chain tensioner should take most of that out.
 
MrZig said:
Okay here's a small update. It might be related with the cam timing.

Clymer says that on the GS450's, I need 18 links between the cam marks. Even though mine is a GSX400, everything that the manual has said for the GS450 has applied for my engine.

As you can see, I have 20 links between the marks:




Now, with the timing marks setup like this (I'm not sure if it's correct?)



The exhaust cam is pointed here:




I think something is haywire here and I may have bent a valve.

I noticed that when spinning the engine with a ratchet, the chain in between the camshafts is pretty taught at times, then if I spin it some more it loosens up a bit, then if I spin it more it tightens up, rinse and repeat.
Click to expand...

Is it possible that the cam chain skipped a couple notches which resulted in the 20 links of space instead of 18? If the cam tensioner is wonky this could occur. Hopefully the valves haven't been bent from contact with pistons if timing was off. I found that the previous owner had the exhaust cam off by one tooth and the intake one tooth long also, bike ran okay. Are you going to pull head and check valves? I would suggest retiming intake cam correctly and then mechanically turn over motor while paying attention to valves to see if they are closing.

Just want to clarify that I do not know the correct cam timing for your model so please double check, I am only making suggestion from what you have disclosed to us. Hopefully it is only a bad tensioner.
 
The gsx400 is the same down below, but the head is totally different, I will check my book and see if it mentions anything.
 
20 is correct? Okay, howabout this:

Clymer says that with the T aligned correctly (meaning Cylinder #1 is at TDC, right?) the #1 arrow on the exhaust sprocket should be pointing foward at the gasket level.

On my engine, when the T is aligned and #1 is at TDC, it's arrow #2 that is pointing forward at the gasket level.
 
And I quote"

"With the "T" mark in exact alignment with index mark on the static plate of the ATU (#1 at TDC), the Exhaust camshaft should have the #1 marked arrow pointing flush with the upper mating surface of the head."

just like in the picture you sent me earlier:

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/859/camshafttiming.jpg

sounds like you skipped a few teeth, hopefully nothing is wrecked and you can reset and go, not sure though from what you described...
 
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donimo said:
And I quote"

"With the "T" mark in exact alignment with index mark on the static plate of the ATU (#1 at TDC), the Exhaust camshaft should have the #1 marked arrow pointing flush with the upper mating surface of the head."

just like in the picture you sent me earlier:

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/859/camshafttiming.jpg

sounds like you skipped a few teeth, hopefully nothing is wrecked and you can reset and go, not sure though from what you described...
Click to expand...


Okay, here's the weird thing. Your manual says the TDC method is the exact same thing I've been doing. IF this is true, then both of my cams have jumped four ****ing teeth. How does this happen?

Step one: Make sure the #1 piston is at TDC and the "T" aligns with the mark.

Timing Mark:
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/4304/dsc0016.jpg

Piston #1 at TDC:
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7478/dsc0018.jpg

Step two: Make sure the arrow #1 on the exhaust camshaft sprocket is
pointing forwards to the gasket surface

Arrow #2 which should be #1
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/9910/dsc0017c.jpg

How the flargin blargin does this happen? How does it even run? Something can't be right here.
 
Last edited:
I seriously doubt your cams jumped 4 teeth, let alone 1. If they are off, it probably means they were off since the last time the cams were out.
 
reddirtrider said:
I seriously doubt your cams jumped 4 teeth, let alone 1. If they are off, it probably means they were off since the last time the cams were out.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was thinking, them jumping 4 teeth just isn't possible. The questions now are A) Why is it running at all and B) Why only now is it causing problems for me?

This is mind boggling.
 
does having the Other" T mark (180* over) make it right? My book has the "Tl lF" one as being TDC, you might me on the exhaust stroke there?
 
My book says the "T mark on the R side of the plate", you are on the L side...
 
donimo said:
does having the Other" T mark (180* over) make it right? My book has the "Tl lF" one as being TDC, you might me on the exhaust stroke there?
Click to expand...

When the other "T" is lined up, arrow #1 is facing forward and correct, but cylinder #1 is at the bottom and cylinder #2 is at TDC. As if it's reversed. Perhaps it is correct after all?
 
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RH cyl is cyl #1

I know that doesnt make sense, but there you go...

didnt catch that in the pic, sorry.
 
donimo said:
RH cyl is cyl #1

I know that doesnt make sense, but there you go...

didnt catch that in the pic, sorry.
Click to expand...

RH is cyl #1? I always thought the left was #1. Well, if that's the case, then my timing and camshafts are all perfectly OK and my entire engine problem lies elsewhere. At least that is ruled out, now.

Edit: BTW Donimo thanks for all the help with your manual and such. I would be very, very lost without it. :) If you ever come by I'll buy you a beer or two.
 
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maybe because the Japanese read right to left?

who knows...

PITA though eh?
 
MrZig said:
No, I havn't done that yet. I'm not sure I should do it with no oil in the engine.
Click to expand...
It won't hurt it. Pull all the plugs and spin it for a couple secs for each reading. Without a load the bearings will be ok.

I'm still interested in seeing what the pistons look like.
 
MrZig said:
No, I havn't done that yet. I'm not sure I should do it with no oil in the engine.
Click to expand...

If you don't hear any scraping when you turn it over by hand then I would do it. It will tell you more than anything without pulling the head.
Pour a little oil over the cams and even some in the chamber (but this will make your compression higher than it actually is), turn it over by hand a few times to coat everything before testing with the starter.
 
Turns out the only compression gauge I have is from the 1970s. It doesn't even screw in, just has a rubber bottom. I know I have some compression because it would pop it out and hiss loudly under the compression stroke. Unfortunately it didn't give me any numbers because I guess it's just too old/broken.

I'll try and find one for further testing. It would be nice to have the numbers.

Quick question, what size are the spark plug holes/threads?
 
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