chain keeps loosening

[bwanna]

Hey All,

I could use some suggestions. A few months ago I put on a new BikeMaster chain and good quality sprockets, both front and rear. Following standard procedure, I set the tension and tightened all parts appropriately. In the beginning, the chain got loose as expected. I commute 50 miles everyday, so am very diligent in checking the tension and lubrication regularly. After approx 1000 miles over the period, the chain is still becoming loose and requiring adjustment after 70-150 miles.

I would think it shouldn't still becoming loose within so few miles. Does anyone have any ideas on this? ... suggestions? Is this expected considering that I'm commuting through some stop/go city traffic?

Tightening procedure:
1. Remove cotter pin and loosen axle nut
2. Loosen locking nut on tensioners (be sure to not let tensioner bolts move)
3. In small equal steps tighten each side tensioner bolts - approx 15degrees.
(check chain slack with each pair of actions)
-I usually verify wheel alignment at this point to ensure subsequent tightening can be accepted as final.

4. Once chain tension is good, insert a small rag on chain in front of the rear sprocket and tighten about 90 degrees to bite the rag in between the chain and sprocket.
5. Rotate wheel back and remove rag. Recheck chain tension and wheel alignment.
6. Once satisfied, tighten tensioner locking nuts.
7. Tighten Axle nut and insert cotter pin.

Thanks in advance,
Steve

 

[tkent02]

Dunno what your trouble is, but with a truely high quality chain and sprockets, you wouldn't be adjusting them at all yet. I have 13,000 miles since new on one bike, have not had to adjust the chain yet. It's still tight, runs silently.
Who makes Bikebandit's chains? And did you put on steel or aluminum sprockets? You did buy an X ring chain, right?

 

[tatu]

I don't understand what the thing is with the rag, but the tension of the chain is that it should be done off the stand wheels on the ground with normal load should be about 3/4" slack.

 

[bwanna]

Dunno what your trouble is, but with a truely high quality chain and sprockets, you wouldn't be adjusting them at all yet. I have 13,000 miles since new on one bike, have not had to adjust the chain yet. It's still tight, runs silently.
Who makes Bikebandit's chains? And did you put on steel or aluminum sprockets? You did buy an X ring chain, right?

I don't know who makes bikemaster chains. (Pardon, this is what I meant)

It's not an x ring. Next time I will get one though.

 

[bwanna]

I don't understand what the thing is with the rag, but the tension of the chain is that it should be done off the stand wheels on the ground with normal load should be about 3/4" slack.

The rag serves to put extra pressure on the setup and "sets" the tensions against the contact points. It ensure all of the slack is taken up to get a true measurement. If this isn't done and there's even the smallest bit of space in how the tensioners are sitting, then after you've tightened everything the chain will get slightly loose the first time you pull hard on the throttle. On dirt bikes we would use the shaft of a screwdriver in the valley of a tooth. But I found a rag does just as well with no risk to scratching anything up.

I have been doing the tensioning with the bike on the center stand and then re-checking after I put it down and do a short ride up/down the street. But I'll try you're suggestion and see if changes things. I have tensioned wheels on my dirt bikes (back in the 70's) while on the side stand because I didn't own a center rack.

 

[harley10]

Can you post a pic on how you are checking tension maybe ! brian

 

[bwanna]

Can you post a pic on how you are checking tension maybe ! brian

What would you want me to take a pic of?

 

[GateKeeper]

loose chain after such a short time...

sprockets are wearing out, front or rear

defective chain, it's stretching or wearing out

axle nut loose or not tight enough, same as with the chain adjusters, left lose, not tight enough

There really is not much else that can be at fault ?

.

 

[bwanna]

loose chain after such a short time...

sprockets are wearing out, front or rear

defective chain, it's stretching or wearing out

axle nut loose or not tight enough, same as with the chain adjusters, left lose, not tight enough

There really is not much else that can be at fault ?

.

That's what's been so perplexing about this. I've been looking at all of this and each one appears to be as it should. Especially the Tensioner bolts/nuts and Axle nut being tight. The sprockets look really good still, so I'm thinking the standard 530 chain from Bikemaster is the culprit.

Will likely purchase an X-Ring chain. Since the sprockets are still very good shape, I may just work with them. Will really depend on what I find upon close scrutiny once they're removed.

 

[bccap]

If it's not the chain, and I can't really see it being that no matter how poor quality it is in that mileage. Somehow, someway those chain tensioners are loosening themselves. Perplexing.....

 

[tkent02]

Might be the rag technique. Never tried it. What I've been doing for forty years is walk around the back and give the tire a good kick or a few kicks forward to force the axle up against the adjusters, give the adjusters each a small turn in the tightening direction, set the locknuts loosely, then tighten up the axle by pushing forward on the wrench, not aft. Then, only once I'm satisfied everything is tight and straight, I make sure everything it at the right torque. Again, there's nothing all that critical back there.

Except alignment. Even that is not super critical, sure a misaligned chain will wear the chain quicker than a straight one, but nothng near what you are getting. Even if the axles are very crooked the chain won't wear that fast. 3/4 inch of play seems too small to me. This may be the problem, not sure.

Here's another thought, are your wheel bearings and countershaft bearings in good shape?

 

[bwanna]

Might be the rag technique. Never tried it. What I've been doing for forty years is walk around the back and give the tire a good kick or a few kicks forward to force the axle up against the adjusters, give the adjusters each a small turn in the tightening direction, then tighten up the axle by pushing forward on the wrench, not aft.

There's really nothing all that critical in there, other than aignment, but even if the axles are very crooked the chain won't wear that fast. 3/4 inch of play seems too small to me.

Here's another thought, are your wheel bearings and countershaft bearings in good shape?

I've done the tire kick too! Last year of replaced the wheel bearing and closely inspected the swing arm bearings. I have not gotten into the trans box and examined the bearing on the front sprocket. I hope it's not that.

I'm really hoping it's just my rusty technique.

 

[tkent02]

I've done the tire kick too! Last year of replaced the wheel bearing and closely inspected the swing arm bearings. I have not gotten into the trans box and examined the bearing on the front sprocket. I hope it's not that.

I'm really hoping it's just my rusty technique.

Yeah I forgot about the swingarm bearing.

 

[Crankthat]

Would start by figuring out if your Tension marks are good first.

If so then
Tension the chain again, find some way to lift back wheel off of the ground.
Slowly spin the wheel by hand.
Is there a area where the tension gets to tight again?
If yes then you will have to figure out why.
Check chain while off sprocket to see if any of the links are kinking. (no spin with each other)
If any of them are kinking you will have to figure out why.
If it is the masterlink then it is not installed properly or the wrong link for that chain.
If not the master but you do have a link binding then you will have to figure out what is causing it.
Possible causes that I can figure for links to bind.
1-Chain had one to start.
2-Chain adjusters way off with marks giving you a false reading and causing chain to skip on sprocket as sprocket is at angle.
3-Rear sprocket has a bend or bad teeth.
4-Rear hub has debris or chipped up material between itself and sprocket causing angle in sprocket.
5-Stud bolt holes for studs that attach sprockets have oblong shape and need filled and drilled.
6-Cush rubber needs replaced. (Rubber inside hub that sprocket hub part attaches to.
7-Rear shocks not aligned properly putting more pressure on one side of swingarm or causing swingarm to sit at a angle.
8-To much play at front sprocket.

I am sure there could be other causes for a new chain to bind, but I cannot think of any more right now.

Even if the chain does not have a kink then I would check all of the above.
Would also pay real close attention to your rear shocks to see if they have to much bounce.
If you are riding down the road and bouncing to much.
Thinking that would put a lot of work on your chain and sprockets.
Would cause more damage while turning then straight line as one side of swingarm could lift more as compared to frame then the other causing the sprockets to not be aligned while the bike is leaned.

I know that is a lot of things to check but.....

 

[tatu]

I don't understand what the thing is with the rag, but the tension of the chain is that it should be done off the stand wheels on the ground with normal load should be about 3/4" slack.

Just to be clear here, Normal load includes your weight, so you might need to get some help to do this.

 

[GateKeeper]

Can you post up pics of your setup, as it is now, showing sprockets, chain, adjusters, how you place the rag, and anything else of relevance, it might help some of to see what might be wrong ?

pictures are sometimes worth a thousand words as they say.....

.

 

[bwanna]

Would start by figuring out if your Tension marks are good first.

If so then
Tension the chain again, find some way to lift back wheel off of the ground.
Slowly spin the wheel by hand.
Is there a area where the tension gets to tight again?
If yes then you will have to figure out why.
Check chain while off sprocket to see if any of the links are kinking. (no spin with each other)
If any of them are kinking you will have to figure out why.
If it is the masterlink then it is not installed properly or the wrong link for that chain.
If not the master but you do have a link binding then you will have to figure out what is causing it.
Possible causes that I can figure for links to bind.
1-Chain had one to start.
2-Chain adjusters way off with marks giving you a false reading and causing chain to skip on sprocket as sprocket is at angle.
3-Rear sprocket has a bend or bad teeth.
4-Rear hub has debris or chipped up material between itself and sprocket causing angle in sprocket.
5-Stud bolt holes for studs that attach sprockets have oblong shape and need filled and drilled.
6-Cush rubber needs replaced. (Rubber inside hub that sprocket hub part attaches to.
7-Rear shocks not aligned properly putting more pressure on one side of swingarm or causing swingarm to sit at a angle.
8-To much play at front sprocket.

I am sure there could be other causes for a new chain to bind, but I cannot think of any more right now.

Even if the chain does not have a kink then I would check all of the above.
Would also pay real close attention to your rear shocks to see if they have to much bounce.
If you are riding down the road and bouncing to much.
Thinking that would put a lot of work on your chain and sprockets.
Would cause more damage while turning then straight line as one side of swingarm could lift more as compared to frame then the other causing the sprockets to not be aligned while the bike is leaned.

I know that is a lot of things to check but.....

Thanks for the list. Good thoughts to consider closely. I'll review all of these on the bike... you never know what you might find. I will say that I really don't use the adjuster marks and fully rely on just doing a true wheel alignment and what the chain tension is. Where that falls on the marks is somewhat unimportant to me because they would only give a course level of detail at best. I've seen marks on some of these older bikes be way off and useless for aligning.

Thanks!!

 

[bwanna]

Just to be clear here, Normal load includes your weight, so you might need to get some help to do this.

Ok. Understand. I'm real interested in doing this to see if my 'wheels up' approach comes out with a different setting.

 

[bwanna]

Can you post up pics of your setup, as it is now, showing sprockets, chain, adjusters, how you place the rag, and anything else of relevance, it might help some of to see what might be wrong ?

pictures are sometimes worth a thousand words as they say.....

.

I'll try to do that this during the next few days. maybe I'll even get fancy and do a video!

 

[850 Combat]

I've never heard of the rag thing. Most bikes I have owned require the machine to be loaded, not on the center stand. Most of mine get tighter with load on them, becausre without, the swing arm is closer to the countershaft sprocket than when it is more level with a load on it.