Charging System QUICK TEST

[RobP]

You are barely charging (virtually nothing). I would suspect the stator is fried. Run the Phase B tests leg-leg and especially the leg to ground tests in the Stator Pages (ignore the ohm meter tests).
You are obviously providing enough to the electrical system about 10 amps), but nothing excess to charge the battery except[t ever so slowly (think trickle charging).

http://www.thegsresources.com/statorpapers4.php

Did the stator (voltage) test first step. Only at 27V for leads 1+2, 1+3. For 2+3 only .5 V.

So so it does look like the stator has given up the ghost.

Rob

 

[posplayr]

Did the stator (voltage) test first step. Only at 27V for leads 1+2, 1+3. For 2+3 only .5 V.

So so it does look like the stator has given up the ghost.

Rob

You should probably get a Series R/R if you don't already have one. Post a picture if you cant tell. Look up SH-775 and you will see pictures posted of the part number. There are fakes around. It needs to say SH775XXXX (X are various codes)

 

[RobP]

Finally got around to installing the electrosport stator and r/r.

Did the test and here are the numbers (much better results than the old ones):

off 14.15
key on 13
idle 14.37
2500 - 14.67
5000 - 14.65
off - 14.60

 

[posplayr]

Finally got around to installing the electrosport stator and r/r.

Did the test and here are the numbers (much better results than the old ones):

off 14.15
key on 13
idle 14.37
2500 - 14.67
5000 - 14.65
off - 14.60

it does appear to be charging now but you still have somewhat of a problem. Either you have a very inaccurate voltage meter or you left the shiny r/r installed or both.

 

[holli]

hi

I have a gs 750 1977 and I have a charging problem. Ihave change my stator and R/R (not sure is ok). do you have the output volt for the stator ( 3 yellow cable) I have 2.80 AC. I have between 1-2 2-3 3-1 I have 2.8 ac , is the goed method?
many thanks

ps sorry for my english

 

[Gorminrider]

hi

I have a gs 750 1977 and I have a charging problem. Ihave change my stator and R/R (not sure is ok). do you have the output volt for the stator ( 3 yellow cable) I have 2.80 AC. I have between 1-2 2-3 3-1 I have 2.8 ac , is the goed method?
...

Yes, the method is good but the result (2.8 ac) is BAD. It should be 65.0 to 80.0 ac.

 

[holli]

do you have a idea? I have test no continuity with the ground and 0.8ohms between the pairs. it s possible the rotor?


thanks

 

[Steve]

You say you changed the stator. Did it have 12 or 18 poles? It should have 12.

.

 

[holli]

hello I just removed the nieuw stator, it's a 18 poles. do you think that's the problem?

 

[twotimeGSr]

At it again... replaced my R/R last summer. Here again...ugh.

 

[Guest]

I'm checking the output of my R/R. Does the R/R output gradually rise to maximum output at a given RPM, or does it jump to maximum immediately? To describe what I'm asking: when I'm taking readings across the battery poles at a given RPM, say 3500, the voltage indicated on my multimeter will gradually rise (5 or 6 seconds) to a maximum value and stay there, assuming the RPM's do not change. Is this normal, or should the output immediately jump to the maximum output?

 

[posplayr]

I'm checking the output of my R/R. Does the R/R output gradually rise to maximum output at a given RPM, or does it jump to maximum immediately? To describe what I'm asking: when I'm taking readings across the battery poles at a given RPM, say 3500, the voltage indicated on my multimeter will gradually rise (5 or 6 seconds) to a maximum value and stay there, assuming the RPM's do not change. Is this normal, or should the output immediately jump to the maximum output?

How do you know you are not looking at filtering in the meter? The point is without much more investigation you could not tell from what you are going. That said the battery acts as s big filter so some settling time would not be surprising. Also if the SOC is coming up then you will also be getting a slow rise.

 

[Guest]

How do you know you are not looking at filtering in the meter? The point is without much more investigation you could not tell from what you are going. That said the battery acts as s big filter so some settling time would not be surprising. Also if the SOC is coming up then you will also be getting a slow rise.

This occurs even when the battery is fresh off the charger, so the SOC should be very high. The battery is a new Yuasa AGM. As for filtering in the meter - I'm not familiar with this term. I just seem to recall that with my old GS650 the output value rose quickly. That said, I'm using a different multimeter now than when I had the 650.

 

[posplayr]

This occurs even when the battery is fresh off the charger, so the SOC should be very high. The battery is a new Yuasa AGM. As for filtering in the meter - I'm not familiar with this term. I just seem to recall that with my old GS650 the output value rose quickly. That said, I'm using a different multimeter now than when I had the 650.

The battery voltage you are measuring has a lot of hash/noise on it even when the voltage “stabilizes”. Any digital meter is going to be taking samples at something like 10 per sec and averaging the result to display an average value. How many samples that are used in the average will dictate a slowing of the response time. This is all multimeter behavior which is going to be specific to the brand/cost.

again there are so many possible explanations that for me I would not even consider the meter settled without waiting sat least 5 sec. after that the number can still move but should not keep rising. You never want to see over about 15v and even 14.7 is high with a modern r/r

 

[Guest]

The battery voltage you are measuring has a lot of hash/noise on it even when the voltage “stabilizes”. Any digital meter is going to be taking samples at something like 10 per sec and averaging the result to display an average value. How many samples that are used in the average will dictate a slowing of the response time. This is all multimeter behavior which is going to be specific to the brand/cost.

again there are so many possible explanations that for me I would not even consider the meter settled without waiting sat least 5 sec. after that the number can still move but should not keep rising. You never want to see over about 15v and even 14.7 is high with a modern r/r

Thanks for that explanation. My meter settles at about 14.1v with a SH775 connected to the stock "T" fitting in the wiring harness. I'm experiencing some charging system issues and will be doing the system tests this weekend, but that's for another post.

Thanks again.

 

[posplayr]

Thanks for that explanation. My meter settles at about 14.1v with a SH775 connected to the stock "T" fitting in the wiring harness. I'm experiencing some charging system issues and will be doing the system tests this weekend, but that's for another post.

Thanks again.

14.1v is a little low probably due to dirty. Onnections. You can do the Quick test but you are probably at the point of moving to phase A of the stator tests. Measuring the voltage drops.

14.1v is not a serious concern but as if is likely corrosion it won’t get any better and depending upon humidity and weather you could start slipping below 14.v. This then means that charging rates will be lower and battery recovery from using the starter will take more riding home even at highway speeds.

 

[Guest]

Okay, here are my quick test results:

1. 12.96
2. 12.12
3. 13.06
4. 14.00
5. 14.15
6. 13.24

I'm experiencing a mysterious charging problem, or what seems to be. I have a brand new stator (RM Stator), a brand new battery (Yuasa AGM) and a SH775 R/R. I was out for a ride Wednesday and all was well. The starter turned over nicely, the bike ran very well - all was good. When I started the bike 30 minutes after I got home it fired right up. Thursday I went for a ride again - started fine, ran well. About 45 minutes into the ride I noticed that when my turn signals were activated, the high beam light on my gauges would dim a bit in time with the flashing, which does not normally happen. I played with the switch a bit and it seemed to go away. I then stopped in a parking lot to check my phone and shut the bike off. 5 minutes later the bike started just fine. So I went home and parked it. I went out 30 minutes later to go for a ride to meet my wife and the bike would not turn over. Just a click from the solenoid, but nothing else. When I checked with my multimeter the battery showed it was charged, but as soon as I turned on the key the voltage rapidly dropped to around 8. The battery was actually quite discharged. However, when I do the quick test I can see that it's charging. 14 volts is not super high, but it should still charge the battery well.

I'm going to move onto the stator tests later this morning and will report back. In the meantime, any idea what might be going on here? All the battery connections are new (new OEM cables, both + and -), new terminals on all R/R connections, new terminal on the harness "T" connection, grounds have all been sanded clean, De-Oxited and dielectric grease applied, the fuse box has been disassembled, cleaned and De-Oxited as well. The R/R is connected directly to the stator, R/R positive to the harness "T", R/R negative to the battery negative. The battery charges fine on my 2 amp charger. I'm at a bit of a loss here. The battery should be charging while riding, but apparently it's not.

Added later today:
Stator Phase A results
Step #1 - passed, based upon Quick Test results above (14.0v at 2500RPM)
Step #2 - 0.13v drop between R/R output and battery +
Step #3 - 0.07v drop between R/R negative and battery -

I have 14.15v at 5000rpm so Phase B not necessary

Any thoughts?

 

[posplayr]

Okay, here are my quick test results:

1. 12.96
2. 12.12
3. 13.06
4. 14.00
5. 14.15
6. 13.24

I'm experiencing a mysterious charging problem, or what seems to be. I have a brand new stator (RM Stator), a brand new battery (Yuasa AGM) and a SH775 R/R. I was out for a ride Wednesday and all was well. The starter turned over nicely, the bike ran very well - all was good. When I started the bike 30 minutes after I got home it fired right up. Thursday I went for a ride again - started fine, ran well. About 45 minutes into the ride I noticed that when my turn signals were activated, the high beam light on my gauges would dim a bit in time with the flashing, which does not normally happen. I played with the switch a bit and it seemed to go away. I then stopped in a parking lot to check my phone and shut the bike off. 5 minutes later the bike started just fine. So I went home and parked it. I went out 30 minutes later to go for a ride to meet my wife and the bike would not turn over. Just a click from the solenoid, but nothing else. When I checked with my multimeter the battery showed it was charged, but as soon as I turned on the key the voltage rapidly dropped to around 8. The battery was actually quite discharged. However, when I do the quick test I can see that it's charging. 14 volts is not super high, but it should still charge the battery well.

I'm going to move onto the stator tests later this morning and will report back. In the meantime, any idea what might be going on here? All the battery connections are new (new OEM cables, both + and -), new terminals on all R/R connections, new terminal on the harness "T" connection, grounds have all been sanded clean, De-Oxited and dielectric grease applied, the fuse box has been disassembled, cleaned and De-Oxited as well. The R/R is connected directly to the stator, R/R positive to the harness "T", R/R negative to the battery negative. The battery charges fine on my 2 amp charger. I'm at a bit of a loss here. The battery should be charging while riding, but apparently it's not.

Added later today:
Stator Phase A results
Step #1 - passed, based upon Quick Test results above (14.0v at 2500RPM)
Step #2 - 0.13v drop between R/R output and battery +
Step #3 - 0.07v drop between R/R negative and battery -

I have 14.15v at 5000rpm so Phase B not necessary

Any thoughts?

You are losing 0.13V+0.07=0.20V to wiring. Your 5000 RPM number would be 14.15+0.2=14.35V if you could eliminate those drops. I know you are at 0.20 v.s. the limit I said of 0.25 but given all the work so far, you can likely reduce it down to 0.1 total.

Right now if you are riding around town you are probably not above 14V, and there could be larger loads on the bike than you think (have you added and accessories) or maybe the starter is dragging.

Whenever you stop you should do the key on (without cranking) to see how low the battery goes. This will tell you on balance whether the battery is being charged.

I realize you don't seem to have done a SPG. As you describe with running R/R(-) direct to the battery, suggest there are no other wires. I'm not sure where your other grounds are routed, but if this is really true you would be directing 14 amps through the single wire from the battery(-) to r/r(-). That is the most current flow anywhere other than when the starter is running

I'm not sure if you are riding with a voltmeter. A digital meter would be most accurate wired directly to the battery terminals.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-Car-Mo...44964928?epid=28017553650&hash=item213c434f40

 

[Guest]

You are losing 0.13V+0.07=0.20V to wiring. Your 5000 RPM number would be 14.15+0.2=14.35V if you could eliminate those drops. I know you are at 0.20 v.s. the limit I said of 0.25 but given all the work so far, you can likely reduce it down to 0.1 total.

Right now if you are riding around town you are probably not above 14V, and there could be larger loads on the bike than you think (have you added and accessories) or maybe the starter is dragging.

Whenever you stop you should do the key on (without cranking) to see how low the battery goes. This will tell you on balance whether the battery is being charged.

I realize you don't seem to have done a SPG. As you describe with running R/R(-) direct to the battery, suggest there are no other wires. I'm not sure where your other grounds are routed, but if this is really true you would be directing 14 amps through the single wire from the battery(-) to r/r(-). That is the most current flow anywhere other than when the starter is running

I'm not sure if you are riding with a voltmeter. A digital meter would be most accurate wired directly to the battery terminals.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-Car-Mo...44964928?epid=28017553650&hash=item213c434f40

I just ordered a digital voltmeter from Amazon yesterday.

I haven't done a SPG. The battery neg. pole is grounded to the main ground bolt on the engine, which has been cleaned and a new OEM cable installed. The only other connection to the battery negative pole is the R/R negative. The other grounds are stock, from the harness to the battery box bolt and solenoid bolt, but have been cleaned, de-oxited and greased. A SPG is in my future.

I have no accessories installed. Yesterday's ride was only highway, and I tend to run at 5000RPM or above, so there should have been a good charge going to the battery. When I stopped in the parking lot it started without issue 5 minutes later.

My SH775 is not mounted near the battery nor the original R/R for that matter. I had to mount it in the tail piece because there is simply no room anywhere else on the Katana. So I have about 24" of wiring, both + and -, running from the tail piece to the battery and harness connection, which probably has something to do with the .20v drop. That said, I'll have to work with this because there is nowhere else to mount the R/R.

Does the 0.84v drop from key off to key on concern you? The test says .5v should be the max.

Also, what do you mean by "the starter is dragging"? I understand this probably means that it's drawing on the electrical system, but how do you check this and why would that happen?

 

[posplayr]

I just ordered a digital voltmeter from Amazon yesterday.

I haven't done a SPG. The battery neg. pole is grounded to the main ground bolt on the engine, which has been cleaned and a new OEM cable installed. The only other connection to the battery negative pole is the R/R negative. The other grounds are stock, from the harness to the battery box bolt and solenoid bolt, but have been cleaned, de-oxited and greased. A SPG is in my future.

I have no accessories installed. Yesterday's ride was only highway, and I tend to run at 5000RPM or above, so there should have been a good charge going to the battery. When I stopped in the parking lot it started without issue 5 minutes later.

My SH775 is not mounted near the battery nor the original R/R for that matter. I had to mount it in the tail piece because there is simply no room anywhere else on the Katana. So I have about 24" of wiring, both + and -, running from the tail piece to the battery and harness connection, which probably has something to do with the .20v drop. That said, I'll have to work with this because there is nowhere else to mount the R/R.

Does the 0.84v drop from key off to key on concern you? The test says .5v should be the max.

Also, what do you mean by "the starter is dragging"? I understand this probably means that it's drawing on the electrical system, but how do you check this and why would that happen?

The key ON test and having a low voltage (below 12V) does not necessarily mean you have a bad battery, it just means low SOC. That could be because a battery not taking charge (BAD) or it means it just has not been charged. For a liter bike, I would be more worried about starter clutch kickback trying to crank the bike with low voltage. Also, the bike could be very hard to start if the coils are not seeing at very least 11volts.

From what you are describing, you are not charging enough to overcome the loads. Most loads are pretty standard as they are DOT approved lighting or 3-4 ohm coils. This is why the key on the test is pretty reliable load test as long as the headlamp comes on.
Trying to use your starter as a load test is going to be problematic because you don't know if the starter is dragging (drawing more current than it should). You can have grease in the windings, shorted windings, worn commutator and brushes poor connections.
These will all slow the cranking which will make it take longer to get the bike to start and use more energy from the battery.

The SH775 is a monster(especially with the connector). The Compufire is much smaller and I was able to mount in the stock location. Sounds like you did about the best you could with your long run length to the tail. You know how to measure the voltage drops so keep tabs on them to see if they get any worse from corrosion. You should have run 14 ga wire for those long lengths and minimize connections. Any further degradation will be from corrosion at the contacts.