Chunk of zip tie in the cylinder

[Gibbelstein]

I was checking the shims this weekend using the zip tie method, and between me pulling prematurely and me putting a severe crimp on the folds when I made the "tool", there is now a chunk of zip tie in my #3 cyl. The missing piece is about 1/2" long.

How worried should I be about this piece? I fished around in the cyl a bit with a stick with some grease on it, and came up with nothing. The valve seats fine, so I'm thinking that if it is above the valve it will be blown out. However, if it is in the cyl and just being stubborn, I don't know how much of a problem it could pose.

Anyone have any experience with this before? I'm thinking that if need be, I can pull the header to try to see if it is in the exhaust port. How big of a pain is it to pull and reseal the header? I've never done it on a bike before.

Thanks for reading,
Chris

 

[Gibbelstein]

(Points to the first person with a joke about "pulling prematurely")

 

[7981GS]

That doesn't happen when you use the, easy to use, stock-type tool. :-#

Just sayin' :-\\\


Eric

PS: perhaps blowing it out with high pressure air could work?

 

[koolaid_kid]

First, be very worried. That piece will not blow itself out, you have to physically remove it yourself. Most likely you will have to remove the head to get to it. Sucks, but that is the way it is.

 

[mike_of_bbg]

Find it before you try to run it again! To me it's not that hard to remove the exhaust, but having a helper is good with how bulky it is. The biggest thing to watch out for is breaking off the exhaust bolts, which is common.

 

[TheCafeKid]

You're not going to get it through the exhaust port. I've done this very same thing. Yes you need to remove it. Yes the head will have to come off. No you shouldn't re-use the head gasket, and yes you should order a new head and base gasket. Removing the head will often disturb the base (cylinder to block gasket) and if you don't replace it now, it may leak, badly, later.

 

[kdo58]

why cant you use a shop vac and suck it out?

 

[TeamDar]

Where is your sense of adventure? If you are bold enough to stick a zip tie where it doesn't belong why not run it and see if it comes out? It IS just plastic....

 

[Guest]

Keep fishing around til you get it. Can't have gone anywhere else. Even if it takes all day it's quicker, cheaper and easier than pulling the head.

 

[Adler]

I would definitely NOT pull the head... Im sure you can fish it out.

Pop off the headers and take a look in there. Use a light to look through the plug hole.

 

[7981GS]

One of those cheap 3-prong grabber tools from Harbor Freight perhaps?

Eric

 

[Sadsak]

Patience and persistance Grasshopper. Shop vac with a small hose attached should work. Coat hanger with a dab of grease or some duct tape might work. I'd spend a lot of time fishing before I pulled the head. But you MUST have that piece in your hand before you fire it up again.
And for Pete's sake get the proper tool for the job next time!

 

[7981GS]

For others out there, PLEASE LEARN from this and,
instead of using Black Magic, just get one of these instead...

 

[Dogma]

I don't think there's any guarantee that a greased stick would find it. It would have been nice, though. The carbs are easy to get off an 850. I'd say pull 'em, then make sure the intake is open before getting the air swirl going in the cylinder as suggested by Highway Glider. I've done something similar to dry carb parts in a jar. The tiny little parts hit the hand covering hte jar hard enough to sting. Hold a screen or something over the carb boot so you know when it comes out.

If that doesn't get it, then I'd pull the exhaust off. They re-seal easily if you have new gaskets. The old ones might seal again, but you won't know unless you try. The danger in pulling the exhaust is the common problem of breaking a bolt off in the head. Use penetrating oil and heat if you have the slightest sign of difficulty. Don't forget to undo the crossover pipe under the engine, so you can take just half of the exhaust system off.

 

[fishfarm]

Similar thread:

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=176092

His fix:

"So I got it out pretty easily, I just took off the carb boot and there it was on the intake side. I had to turn the engine until the valve was open, then it let go and I was able to pull it out with some needle nose pliers."

 

[Dogma]

For others out there, PLEASE LEARN from this and,
instead of using Black Magic, just get one of these instead...

That one must be umpteen times better than the one by Motion Pro if you're recommending it, because the Motion Pro tool sucks. The zip tie method is safe if you use it right. Much easier to use right than the hook tool I have.

 

[Adler]

For others out there, PLEASE LEARN from this and,
instead of using Black Magic, just get one of these instead...

I hardly think this will make me do anything of the sort. The zip tie method is cheap, quick and safe.

This is an unusual situation not unlike a shim shattering because the "proper" tool slipped.

 

[Katarat]

How about turning the engine over by hand until the exhaust valve is open and blowing air into the spark plug hole ? Just a thought & worth a shot. Yould have to take the pipes off to see if it comes out but if youre pulling the head youll have to do that anyway

 

[7981GS]

All of these feasible solutions would not be needed if he just used the correct tool.
Sorry to burst the bubble of those that are still convinced that the vippy tie is a better idea.
I have NEVER in over a hundred valve adjustments in over 30 years EVER broke a valve shim.
WHAT DOES ONE HAVE TO DO TO DO THAT ANYWAY????
Pay attention to what you are doing and mistakes don't happen. Period.


Eric


Shameless plug: I have shims for sale for those that need some whether they practice breaking them or just need a different size.

 

[Allie]

If you're a dentist just take the bike to your office and use the suction tool, I bet that would get it out with a little patience. Might want to do it in the off hours though. If you're like me and a) not a dentist and b) really cheap you might try 'reducing' a shop vac down to a small flexible hose, duct tape would be of assistance there. I would hesitate to stick duct tape into the cylinder itself, it could be even more troublesome than the plastic if it decides to stay.