CLICK CLICK nothing

[bighamms]

Big T suggested I post these questions here as they were too technical for the general discussion forum....

Ok, so I posted a thread a few days after picking up a $100 '81 gs450s. Just to recap, the bike appears to be all original and pretty clean, however, i can't get it to turnover/run. Here's what I've tried so far. And big thanks to gggGary for all the advice:

- brand new battery, fully charged per manufacture instructions
- bike has a broken start button housing, but you can touch the wires together to get juice running through it. I've ordered a direct replacement start button housing (in working order) off of ebay.
- when touching the start button, I hear 2 CLICKS. 1 when the button is down, and one when released. the CLICK CLICK is coming from the left side electronics panel. when I put my hand on the individual units, I get a physical sensation from the solenoid/starter relay. it kind of jumps.
- have disconnected, cleaned (sand papered all bullet connections) and reconnected all wires coming from the left side panel (rectifier, starter relay, etc.)
- have disconnected, cleaned all grounds
- Per Gary's advise, I've put the bike in all gears and tried to roll it around in an attempt to eliminate a seized motor. Initially the bike did not want to roll with in gear, but i sprayed a little carb cleaner in the exhaust mani and spark plug holes. let that sit for a couple of hours than tried to roll it again and it rolled in all gears. After getting it to roll, i put a couple of squirts of 10w40 oil in spark plug holes to combat the solvent of the carb cleaner...again, thanks Gary
- Tried to jump the solenoid with a screw driver buy shorting the 2 large bolts. Nothing, no spark at all
- took off carbs (what a bitch.... man, getting them off was brutal, but the airbox was unforgiving). The carbs are immaculate. I was told by PO, that he had done a carb job before he stored it. Carbs are clean, gaskets are fresh and rubbery, all passages/ports are free of debris.
- the carbs, tank and petcock were bone dry upon inspection.


When cleaning all the connections, i discovered the following: 2 wires (both yellow w/ green stripe) coming from bottom of clutch but not connected to anything and the ends had no terminators on them. Also found a single white wire coming from left blinker with a bullet terminator on the end. it was not connected to anything. Right blinker does not have this wire coming from it. Both blinkers are fully operational.

So, it's alot of information, but i wanted to make sure i gave you all the steps i've tried so far. At this point, I'm lost. I don't want to pay to have it fixed because then I will not have taught myself how to fix it in the future. That being said, i need to mention that i know NOTHING about bikes, so if you have suggestions, please pretend you are instructing a child, yes, that mean PICTURES, VIDEOS, sh*t i'll even take an audio book at this point.

Thanks in advance

*side note, i'm in St. louis. if there are other riders on this site from my area, PLEASE reach out.

 

[chuck hahn]

Can you take the point cover off and try to turn the engine with a wrench on the bolt there? If you know for sure..or even think.. it is frozen up i would first remove the spark plugs and shoot a good dose os seafoam in and let it set a few days. Or you favorite penetrating oil. This will let it soak and free up the rings a bit so you can get it moving. If the bike has a kick starter use that to try and get some good torque to loosen things up as well. As for the click..that would tell me the sellinoid is atb least working. Try to go directly to the terminal on the starter motor with the positive with a piece of heavy guage wire bypassing the selinoid. That will tell you if theres any response from the starter itself .. if it tries and the engine doesnt crank then that will also tell you if the engine is froze up as well.

 

[bighamms]

@ chuck... thanks for the reply. I'm really hoping that the engine isn't frozen. I don't know enough to take on a task like that. Where would I find the points on this bike. I was kind of under the impression that it doesn't have points. Also, this model does not have a kick start on it.

I will definitely give the penetrating oil a try. I don't have a fav, so if you could recommend, that would be swell. And when you say a "good amount", does that mean that there's no such thing as too much?

 

[terrylee]

If you're not getting a spark when you jump it with a screwdriver across selnoid then your most likely getting no juice to that point. You should have the large red wire from battery connected to one post and other large post should have wire (blk) going down to starter. You should have smaller red wire from battery that should go to a fuse holder(450 don't have fuse box) which then goes into wiring harness on bike. You should have a yellow and green wire that is most likely soldered to a connection on the selniod. That should have other end same color which plugs into that and goes into wiring harness. The red smaller wire provides power to everything beyond selniod, the yellow/green if I remember correctly goes through ignition switch. Sorry I'm not at home and my 450 is. I had a similar problem, put I could jump it across selniod. Turned out to be ignition switch, which I took apart and cleaned and have had no problem since. If you don't have a cheap 12volt tester, get one and start fiquring out where you do have juice and where you don't. As everyone will tell you wiring this old can cause alot of problem, best replace most bullet connectors with spade type, may help alot. terrylee

 

[chuck hahn]

A GOOD AMOUNT to me would be put maybe 3 or 4 pumps from like a windex type bottle in there.. There are several penetrating oils that will work..PB Blaster, liquid wrench, etc etc. The points should be under the round cover on the front right side of the engine.. usuaully 3 or 4 screws..if you get it freed up and running just know its gonna smoke like al heck for quite a while to burn off the oil in the rings and such so try firing up for the first time outside with the wind blowing away from the house.

 

[bighamms]

@ terrylee....good stuff man. I was reading through your post when i realized that I had taken a pic and remembered thinking how weird it was that one of the posts has nothing attached, especially because there was a rust ring that indicated that something had sat there for quite a while. I'm attaching the pic. I have the yellow/green soldered wire running to ignition, I have the thick black ground going to the starter motor. Small red wire coming off battery into harness. dude, it looks like i'm missing the large red going to battery.

 

[bighamms]

@ chuck....ok, points located. I'm going to give it a tug when i get home and see what that yields. I'll stop and pick up a little PB on the way...oh, and i guess I can get some penetrating oil as well.

 

[chuck hahn]

PB is penetrating oil...and be easy on the bolt..just a bit of pressure and if it doesnt budge dont force the issue there..no good to snap the bolt off!!!!

 

[bighamms]

@ chuck... by PB i was referring to Pabst Blue...it might take a can or 3 before I figure out what's wrong. Again, thanks for the info. I will try some of this out as soon as i get home.

 

[chuck hahn]

LMAO never crossed my mind on the PB LOL Might try a 30 pack.

 

[chuck hahn]

If they dont make PBR in 30 packs..5 six packs will equal 30 ...just in case you needed to know!!!!

 

[Big T]

@ terrylee....good stuff man. I was reading through your post when i realized that I had taken a pic and remembered thinking how weird it was that one of the posts has nothing attached, especially because there was a rust ring that indicated that something had sat there for quite a while. I'm attaching the pic. I have the yellow/green soldered wire running to ignition, I have the thick black ground going to the starter motor. Small red wire coming off battery into harness. dude, it looks like i'm missing the large red going to battery.

Bighamms - the missing big red wire supplies the electricity to the solenoid, kind of important.

But pull off the RH cover, where your electronic ignition (not points) lives. Put a wrench on the big nut and rotate clockwise only. Do this before you try the starter

 

[bighamms]

@ big t.... will do. thanks for the reply. About the red wire. Should I use the same gauge as the black wire running to the starter motor? And should this red wire go directly from solenoid post to battery positive terminal? I included a pic earlier, just want to make sure I don't fry something....all of the above assumes that the big bolt under the RH cover spins with relative ease.

 

[terrylee]

Yes you should have a thicker red wire attached to that empty bolt, going straight to the battery, and then you should have power to the selinod and to starter. The smaller red wire with fuse should be attached to the thicker red wire on or near the battery. terrylee

 

[bighamms]

@ terrylee... thanks dude. this has been a tremendous help. As mentioned, I'll give a little tug on the nut under the cover, hopefully is spins. if it does, I'll run the red pwr wire and try to fire this bad boy up. If it doesn't fire up, I'm putting it in my yard next to the weight bench and garden Gnomes.

 

[bighamms]

Gentlemen,

some exciting news this morning. Raced home like a bat out of hell last night to check for a seized engine. Hooked up a socket and crossed my fingers. Happy to report, engine is not stuck. It spun with relative ease. I even put it in gear and spun it a few times and everything checked out. so then i decided to hook up a positive cable from the solenoid directly to battery...more good news, it went CLICK CLICK.... So the issue still remains. how's this positive you ask, well I've learned more about this bike in the last 24 hours and am feeling pretty confident that I'll be better off by the end of this post.
So, it's still CLICKING. Now I'm thinking that either the relay is faulty, the ignition start switch is faulty (which is already broken so i know it has issues) or the starter motor is faulty. So i decided to take out the starter motor to make sure is spins freely. After unbolting it, i realized that the cam change tensioner is in the way. I don't want to pull it out until i ask a few questions:
1. should i pull it out?
2. will it go back in with ease?
3. is there a precise science to the removal/

Again, thanks gentlemen, your advice has been invaluable.

 

[chuck hahn]

you shouldnt have to remove the tensioner..just wiggle it around while lifting the back and it should come out. just sit back and look at it and the process will develope in your mind. If you press the starter button and you get the selinoid click the switch is ok..otherwise it wouldnt send power down for the selinoid to click in the first place. Like i said before.. to bypass the selinoid and check the starter motor while in the bike is easy.. Jusy run a hot wire directly from the battery to the post on the starter..it will either crank it over or not. If it cranks it over then that tells you the starter is good. Since you already know the starter button is working, the process of elimination isolates the starter selinoid as bring bad. OH and be sure the battery is 100% charged too so that your getting MAX cranking power while doing the bypass to check the starter motor.

 

[bighamms]

@ Chuck... Ok, so starter button is good. when you say run HOT wire directly from starter to battery are you referring to starter MOTOR or starter RELAY. i currently have a hot wire running directly from solenoid (starter relay) to battery. If I'm running a hot directly to starter MOTOR, where to i connect it? i have the black ground coming from starter relay to starter motor, where do i connect the hot on the motor.

Also, this may be of use, but with the starter relay correctly connected (black to starter motor, red to battery and yellow into wiring harness) i get NO spark when I use a screw drive to jump from post to post on the starter relay. I believe I should be getting some sort of spart...correct?

 

[chuck hahn]

from the [positive on the battery directly to the post the wire on the starter motor hooks to. this bypasses the selinoid and throws juice directly to the starter.. the starter button on the hancle bars must be working or like i said before..if it isnt working then there wouldnt be any click at the selinoid in the first place. Since it does click i say the button is fine. By directly bypassing the selinoid you will know if the starter motor is good..it will either crank or it wont. follow me so far?

 

[bighamms]

LIKE A GLOVE....dude, you are the man.. i bypassed the solenoid and it turned over....sounds goooooooood. And the bolt on engine began to move. Ok, looks like i need a new relay. so here comes my next set of questions. I found a relay on ebay that came off of a suz gs550 same year. I am really thinking that I'd like to buy a NEW relay. maybe a universal. recommendations.
again, thank you so much for the education.