Clutch chatter and poor low end performance.

[80s cars or gtfo]

Hi GS resources, this is my first post on this forum though I have been a lurker here for a few months. My new to me 1983 gs1100e is any thing but perfect but I'm anxious to get it running great. Since I've had it I've mostly been working on it and have only rode it home from buying it. During that ride it had some hesitation up to about 3500 rpm but otherwise rode well. I have replaced both tires, the battery, the main ground wire, deleted the Killswitch and wrapped the exhaust. After having it back together I attempted a small joy ride before working on the next thing.

I started it up, it needed full choke to start at 50?f. Warmed up in about 10 minutes with a couple loud pops in the exhaust. When I mounted it and began to release the clutch it started to bog and stall. It stalled with giving throttle and barley moved forward. I double checked the trans was in 1st and not 3rd, haha, and tried again. Same thing. I got it to move the third time by really giving it throttle(about as much if you were stoplight racing) and it started to go but when I released the clutch all the way it stalled out while going about 2mph. On the fourth try I got it down the driveway and back but it rode very poorly. It was like the whole time the bike was out of power. In gear or neutral with the clutch engaged (released) it makes a chattering noise. I've heard OF clutch chatter but I've never experienced it so I don't know if that's what it is doing exactly.
Heres the fun part: The fresh White exhaust wrap I put on has started to turn Brown(as expected), but only on the two left-most cylinders while the two cylinders on the right are still pearly whites.
The bike has pod filters and a yoshimura exhaust. Otherwise it is stock to the best of my knowledge.

Now, I get it, I really do. "Have you properly adjusted and synced the carbs"? "Don't do anything until you've check the valve Clearances" "get your carbs rebuilt, get a new clutch, redo the whole ignition system and pull the head to get it machined, that will solve it"
There's alot of foundation I need to cover before I can start chasing problems, but I'm broke, busy and don't want to invest too much more into this bike that I already have $300 into and have only ridden once. I do want your guy's advice but if you're going to say I need to spend $180 on a dynojet kit and another $120 on labor to get the carbs synced then you're not helping too much. I know I need to do that I just can't right now. My first instinct is to adjust the valves as it is cheap and needs to be done. The only other thing I can think of as being an issue are the carbs. But as mentioned id like to see if I can get a fix cheaper than that. What else is likely to be causing this problem?

 

[Guest]

I'd start by checking for spark on 1 and 4. Pull the plugs and see if they're wet with fuel.

 

[cowboyup3371]

To be completely honest, you must be willing to do the work and spend the time/money when you own an older bike.

You said you had the choke when you started it but I don't see anything that said you shut the choke off. Did you try to touch the throttle with the choke fully on?

Take care of the basics first like fully stripping and dipping the carbs, replacing O-rings, verifying jet sizes for the pods, etc. than work from there. Yes, you already spent 300 but that's nothing compared to the smiles you'll get once it's fully operational.

 

[Nessism]

Sounds like the bike needs maintenance. You may want to check the Newbie Mistakes thread linked in my signature to see some common problem areas.

 

[bobgroger]

Needing full choke at first startup is normal. It is not a "choke" in the normal sense. The pilot jets in the carbs are most likely plugged. You need to invest in a set of o-rings, float bowl gaskets, pilot jet plugs, and a gallon of Berryman's carb dip at the bare minimum. There is probably a member near you that will help sync the carbs for beer. These are not "suggested maintenance" items. If you don't want to do them, pass the bike along to someone that will, and get a fuel injected newer bike.

 

[glib]

First, some good news—the carbs are so much easier to get out without the airbox.

Start with a set of o-rings from Robert Barr. About six bucks if I recall. And the Berrymans that Bob mentioned. Thats the cheapest, most effective thing you can do with a “new to me” GS. (Follow the carb cleaning instructions).

Valves are just the price of a gasket and a feeler gauge if you don’t already have it so get them done too.

I believe you can get it running without the DynoJet kit but they do work really well. I wouldn’t be much help picking jets without it but others on here may be.

Get some pics posted so we can make comments that you may or may not appreciate!

 

[posplayr]

Cheap approach:
1.) Put the bike up on the center stand and make sure that you can go through the gears with the bike running and no major clunking: If that passes then:
2.) Pull the carbs and get some carb cleaner, pull the float bowl covers, remove pilot and main jets. Shoot carb cleaner through them and push a piece of wire through as well. Spray through the other bleeders and air jets.
3.) Pull the clutch cover and make sure the clutch nut is tight (save up for the $30 nut from APE for later after you feel committed)
4.) If all goes well try to ride it again.

 

[80s cars or gtfo]

Thank you to everyone that has replied. I'm glad to hear that everyone is in agreement on the carbs being the most likely issue. I haven't had time to work on it yet but as I do I'll keep the thread updated. I feel as if though I may have left the impression I was searching for an easy fix, but I want you guys to know that it really is just that times are tough. I am very glad to hear everyones considerate suggestions. I know on other forums I would have gotten alot of hate about wanting to save money. 1funnyride from the prelude forum seemed like he wanted to take my eye out for saying I planned on using a junk yard coil spring haha.
Astro: thanks I'll be sure to check for spark, not something I would have thought of but it makes sense and is fast and free to check
Ed: thank you for your suggestions. I have read the too five newbie mistakes I think the humor is exactly to my taste and I think getting the basic maintenance done on a new car or bike is one of the most gratifying experiences a diy mechanic can have.
Bob: yes I turned the choke off about 3 minutes in after it was able to idle without it. However I am deeply hurt by your suggestion to get a newer bike. Have you read my username? I've never owned anything that wasn't older than I am, even my fiancee is two years my senior haha
Glib: I like your approach. I'm short on money, not on time. I don't know who this Robert is but I'll find him and get some of his magic rings. When I first get a chance I tear those carbs apart and slap em back together fresh and minty as they were when they left the the factory.

 

[80s cars or gtfo]

this is a picture of the bike when I first bought it

 

[80s cars or gtfo]

And this one is after the paint job. Oh, did I mention I painted it?

 

[80s cars or gtfo]

And this is after the new tires and the exhaust wrap

 

[roeme]

Nobody in here will tell you that you must spend big bucks on these bikes. It's always a trade-off between time and money - but note that there are some problems you cannot solve without proper parts. And when you take short-cuts, be full-well aware of implications later on.

That being said, you seem to, and also, one can work incrementally on these bikes. Just make sure you take notes, so you'll always know what you've already done (and not yet), measurements, etc.

Now for your problem; Symptoms do sound like 3&4 not firing. The symptoms sound very similar to what I've experienced recently. Culprit was a crappy primary connection to one of the ignitions coils (it rattled loose), which led to 2&3 not firing.

Hence, do what 05Astro suggested, and check the coils. What is a bit strange in your case is that cylinders 1&4 and 2&3 share a coil, so 3&4 not firing points at somewhere else. Still, check coils as a first measure.

 

[LAB3]

Here's a good old-school money saving tip that I'm sure will set off a good many comments. Pine Sol works well as a carb dip, mix two parts Pine Sol with one part water in a container and drop your parts in, rinse in water after you soak them. It's a heck of a lot cheaper than a gallon container of carb dip and can be used as a general all around degreaser afterward, I've been using it since the 70's and you can be sure I wasn't the first one.

 

[glib]

I don't know who this Robert is but I'll find him and get some of his magic rings.

Sorry bro. Go here:

http://www.cycleorings.com/

 

[80s cars or gtfo]

Thanks lab3! I've used pinesol on wheels and suspension parts before and know it cleans well. But I know not to use it on aluminum from a bad experience with an intake manifold. However if I'm not mistaken our carbs should be mostly zinc and steel correct?

 

[LAB3]

As near as I can tell the carbs on my 450 are potmetal, which means lots of zinc. Those ones in particular where darkened just a tad after rinsing with plain water, I've had it happen on other carbs as well. There's the cost of the dip but more important to me is what you do with it afterwards, the Pine Sol can be safely used for other purposes, carbdip is hazardous waste.

 

[Wingsconsin]

Keep at it -- your efforts can pay off --

Although you did violate the order in which these older bikes should be recovered --

1) Get it running -
--- spend as little as possible and decide if it's worth doing better - then spend a little more until it runs WELL

2) Get it stopping -
--brakes, tires, suspension all are incredibly valuable and $$ consuming -(That's why we do this AFTER it's worth it)

3) Get it pretty (comfortable)
--spending time and money painting or polishing a bike that has fatal flaws internal to the engine is folly
--Once it's RUNNING WELL - and STOPPING WELL
Then spend money on paint, chrome, seats, etc.

Just my 3 rules of bike resurrection (and I have flipped a dozen or so for profit)

Enjoy the ride

 

[80s cars or gtfo]

Valve adjustment done, no valves were terribly out of spec. They were all in the .005-.007" range, odd that they were loose rather than tight. Took the carbs off and opened all the floats, float height good and the floats seem to be moving freely and operating as they should. Sprayed everything down with berrymans and put everything back together. The carbs appear to be recently serviced, and the screws were replaced with the kind sold by cycleorings.com, socket head SS with light copper antisieze. The previous owner owned multiple bikes and was the one that told me about the gs resources website to begin with. I'm willing to bet that he has already changed the orings and everything else too. I know it sounds like taking the easy way out but I have no reason risk a broken pilot jet or a torn diaphragm by doing unnecessary dismantling and reassembly. He only had the bike for a year and at most those orings are that old. Even the float bowl gaskets look fresh enough to reuse.
Do you think the poor performance could be caused by simply old gas? Carbs out of sync? I bench synced them to basscliffs websites instructions and they pretty much spot on. Speaking of gas, is it odd that the bike leans to the left when parked and the cylinders on the left we're burning hotter? How would those potentially correlate?

 

[bobgroger]

Ethanol gas causes corrosion. The hole in the pilot jet is about .008 and can become clogged in as little as a few weeks. Bench sync is not enough. We have all learned the hard way, there are no shortcuts that do not lead to doing the job twice. Just sayin'....

 

[80s cars or gtfo]

Do you think just breaking them down and chem dipping is enough? I can't find a good walkthrough on this site or on basscliffs site with a working link. I'm not confident in my carb knowledge to go in to something like this blind.