Cold start issue

[hellize]

Hello,

The story goes like this.
My gs 450 consumes quite a bit of oil, so I have to refill it very often. Now I experienced it that with less oil, but around the minimum line, the engine starts easier.
Today I filled it till max and the bike wouldn't wanted to start. I removed one sparkplug to check it if it gives spark, it did, but than I peeked into the sparkhole and noticed that the cylinders head had dark oily goo on it, not fully covered, just here and there.
Could it be that the excess oil found its way beside the rings to the explosion chamber and extinguished the spark or something? Would a new ring set solve this problem? What do you guys think?

Edit: later I hunted down my uncle and he pushed me in

 

[Guest]

The oil level won't affect whether it starts or not. I can see that a little higher oil level might make it turn over slightly slower, but not enough to matter.

If it's using a lot of oil, and I'm assuming it's not leaking it out, then you've most likely got a ring problem. This can also foul the plugs, which will affect starting. Doing a proper top end job on the motor is pretty involved and requires the space, tools and experience. It won't be cheap or easy.

There's also the question of what the rest of the motor is like, as there's not much point in doing the top end if the bottom end is shaky.

Just because a spark plug shows a spark, it doesn't mean it will fire when in the cylinder under compression. Usually it will but if it's really dirty it may not. I'd put two new plugs in it and see what happens.

 

[kdo58]

are you checking the oil on the center stand or the side stand?

 

[JEEPRUSTY]

WHat viscosity oil are you using? Thats a major impact if its heavy
ALso use the manula and only put the oil as high as its supposed to be
I think its halfway up the glass for normal operations

 

[Steve]

Three common causes of poor hard starting (in no particular order):
1. Improper technique.
2. Dirty, or mis-adjusted carbs
3. Mis-adjusted valves (especially the intakes)

Oil level has nothing to do with starting ability.

.

 

[JEEPRUSTY]

Are you using a suor heavy oil to deal with the oil burning?

I had straight 30 diesel in one summer and it got cold one night and it was almost impossible to start my bike.

 

[hellize]

The plugs are technically new, 2 months old.
I have no glass to check the oil level (like my old gsf 400) this one has a marked rod attached to the oilscrew. I am using sae 10w40 oil, that's what the oil screw has etched into it.
I am checking the oil level while the bike is on its wheels, trying to balance it straight
Checking it on the side stand tricked me once, after filling it, the excess oil escaped/flowed out on the right exhaust, guessing the right side rigs are more crappier.
I have no idea about the carbs condition, haven't dismantled them yet.
I don't want to take it apart on my own, but my dad is an auto mechanic, but he lives 500 km away. I am planning to have a look on the carbs, rings and everything within with him later this year.

What would be the proper technique to start it? Maybe I am clumsy.

 

[hellize]

Forgot to ad, that there are no oil leaks. I have the bike from last autumn and never seen a single spot of oil under it.

 

[Steve]

What would be the proper technique to start it? Maybe I am clumsy.

Assuming the bike has been run some time within the last week and the float bowls don't need to be primed:

1. Apply "choke". Experience will dictate how much, but start with FULL "choke" for now.
2. Turn ignition key ON.
3. Pull clutch lever. Many of us disable the "safety" switch, but it's still a good idea.
4. Push the starter button.
5. Use the "choke" knob to regulate engine speed to keep it below about 2500 RPM.

Did you notice where I mentioned using the throttle? No? Good, that's because YOU DON'T TOUCH IT.
Moving the throttle while trying to start the engine with the "choke" will defeat the operation of the "choke", making it hard to start.

You may have noticed that I use quote marks around "choke". That is because the circuit in our carbs that enhances starting and cold operation does not choke off the intake, like cars used to. It is a separate circuit that feeds fuel and air in pretty much the proper rich mixture to start the bike, but it relies on the high vaccum of a closed throttle to work. When you open the throttle, even just barely, you dump the high vacuum and the bike is trying to start on the jets that work well whn the engine is warm.

If the bike has not been run for a week or more, move the petcock lever to PRIme for 30-60 seconds before starting the list above. Be sure to turn it back to the RUN position, or you might have some other problems.

.

 

[tkent02]

Assuming the bike has been run some time within the last week

This, how about a little history? Has the bike been sitting for years or has it been used a lot lately? If it's been sitting for years adjust the valves and then ride it, a lot, thousand miles or more and see what the oil usage looks like. Ride it hard, wind it out, open the throttle.

Do you in Romania have the term, "Italian Tune Up"? That's always a good place to start, as long as you have adjusted the valve clearances correctly.

 

[hellize]

Assuming the bike has been run some time within the last week and the float bowls don't need to be primed:

1. Apply "choke". Experience will dictate how much, but start with FULL "choke" for now.
2. Turn ignition key ON.
3. Pull clutch lever. Many of us disable the "safety" switch, but it's still a good idea.
4. Push the starter button.
5. Use the "choke" knob to regulate engine speed to keep it below about 2500 RPM.

Did you notice where I mentioned using the throttle? No? Good, that's because YOU DON'T TOUCH IT.
Moving the throttle while trying to start the engine with the "choke" will defeat the operation of the "choke", making it hard to start.

You may have noticed that I use quote marks around "choke". That is because the circuit in our carbs that enhances starting and cold operation does not choke off the intake, like cars used to. It is a separate circuit that feeds fuel and air in pretty much the proper rich mixture to start the bike, but it relies on the high vaccum of a closed throttle to work. When you open the throttle, even just barely, you dump the high vacuum and the bike is trying to start on the jets that work well whn the engine is warm.

If the bike has not been run for a week or more, move the petcock lever to PRIme for 30-60 seconds before starting the list above. Be sure to turn it back to the RUN position, or you might have some other problems.

.

Thanks! I will try it out asap.
Seems like I really have been clumsy all this time The guy from who I purchased it told me not to touch the choke (I understand what you said about choke, but that's what is written on the little lever) only use some throttle. It worked till now most of the times.
Yesterday, I've been pushed in and I drove around 50 km, so there will be no prime today.

 

[hellize]

This, how about a little history? Has the bike been sitting for years or has it been used a lot lately? If it's been sitting for years adjust the valves and then ride it, a lot, thousand miles or more and see what the oil usage looks like. Ride it hard, wind it out, open the throttle.

Do you in Romania have the term, "Italian Tune Up"? That's always a good place to start, as long as you have adjusted the valve clearances correctly.

I don't know anything about it prior the purchase.
Since autumn, I have used it a lot, around 3000 km in total. A few weeks ago I had a little longer trip, with a total of 900 km within 3-4 days. Also rode some on the freeway, it did around 135 km/h at max.
It was fun Besides that it consumed 1.7 liters of oil on the 900 km.

I am sorry, but I don't know what the Italian Tune Up means.

 

[hellize]

Had a little ride today to acquire the PTI, which I luckily did but unfortunately Steve's starting instructions didn't work, just got the sparkplugs spited with fuel-oil mixture. After turning the engine without the plugs and waiting a few minutes, it started easily with my previous method: a little throttle and the switch and no choke.
Hmm...

 

[tkent02]

Time for some maintenance.

 

[hellize]

Time for some maintenance.

Yeah, I also came to this conclusion. We will take it apart and see what's worn inside. I hope it is only the rings, or it will be pretty unpretty.

 

[Steve]

... but unfortunately Steve's starting instructions didn't work, just got the sparkplugs spited with fuel-oil mixture. ...

Did you notice the part where I mentioned

Apply "choke". Experience will dictate how much.

Apparently full "choke" is too much for your bike, try something less. Most of my bikes will start with about half "choke", but one does require full.

.

 

[hellize]

Did you notice the part where I mentioned - Apply "choke". Experience will dictate how much.

Yes I did, but did you notice that I said, I have the bike only since a few months. Lack of experience with it, so I went with full choke, which is what you advised in step 1!
Anyway, I will give it a second run with half choke. Hope you're right with it.

 

[BigD_83]

If you need to apply some throttle to start, my spidey instincts are telling me to check the butterfly valve to see if they are slightly open when the throttle is closed.

That being said, it's time for some maintenance, and to check on a few things as already mentioned

 

[tkent02]

But don't take the engine apart. It doesn't need rings.

 

[hellize]

But don't take the engine apart. It doesn't need rings.

And the huge oil consumption?