Dead, dead, dead.

[Polish-Jack]

My 'new to me and has never run' Canadian GS 400 has some sort of electrical problem that I hope you fine folks can help me out with.

I bought this without a battery as the previous owner was convinced that was the problem with it but had it sitting for two years while 'getting to it' and eventually sold it. I bought a new battery and followed the instructions on how to add the acid and charge for the first time, everything went well and I have a good voltage on the battery. When I hooked it up to the bike and turned the key I saw no indicator lights. I switched to bike to ON and pressed the starter button and there was nothing. It's as if there was no battery installed. I removed the battery and put a boost pack on the bike that I have used before and know that it works to rule out a bad battery and the bike acted the same. Dead like a door nail.

I have very little auto or bike experience so I'm here asking where should I even start troubleshooting. I've checked the in-line fuse on the bike's positive battery cable and I have continuity. The battery then connects to a round device that I think is a relay, but other than that I don't know how to test the relay. I'm assuming the Yellow with Green stripe cable is the trigger for the relay (if the thing is actually a relay) but I can't seem to follow where the other end of the wire connects to.

Also, that I have no indicator lights, like the Gear Indicator or the Oil Pressure light, makes me think there is a total loss of power early on in the bikes electrical system.

Any advice?

SOLVED: Turns out it was a bad fuse holder.

 

[tom203]

Hopefully you can see this wiring diagram clearly... It loads really slowly on my ipad. Suspect a bad Connection close to battery not supplying positive power. The "round device" is the starter solenoid relay.

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=2370...0C6B!1033&parId=2370B62DDF9F0C6B!1030&o=OneUp

 

[roeme]

Corroded connections or blown fuses.

Clean fuse holders (and replace fuses) as the first step. steel wool helps alot

In preparation for subsequent steps:
- Get ahold of a multi-meter (cheapo is sufficient)
- Go on bike cliff's homepage and download the circuit schematic (or acquire it from the link tom gave), better the whole service manual for your bike model. (link in my signature)
- Put your bike's model into your forum signature.
- Read and understand Top 10 newbie mistakes thread (link also in my sig)

 

[alke46]

My 'new to me and has never run' Canadian GS 400 has some sort of electrical problem that I hope you fine folks can help me out with.

I bought this without a battery as the previous owner was convinced that was the problem with it but had it sitting for two years while 'getting to it' and eventually sold it. I bought a new battery and followed the instructions on how to add the acid and charge for the first time, everything went well and I have a good voltage on the battery. When I hooked it up to the bike and turned the key I saw no indicator lights. I switched to bike to ON and pressed the starter button and there was nothing. It's as if there was no battery installed. I removed the battery and put a boost pack on the bike that I have used before and know that it works to rule out a bad battery and the bike acted the same. Dead like a door nail.

I have very little auto or bike experience so I'm here asking where should I even start troubleshooting. I've checked the in-line fuse on the bike's positive battery cable and I have continuity. The battery then connects to a round device that I think is a relay, but other than that I don't know how to test the relay. I'm assuming the Yellow with Green stripe cable is the trigger for the relay (if the thing is actually a relay) but I can't seem to follow where the other end of the wire connects to.

Also, that I have no indicator lights, like the Gear Indicator or the Oil Pressure light, makes me think there is a total loss of power early on in the bikes electrical system.

Any advice?

I'm replying here to let you know you are not alone.
My GS 1000 was running fine last week and then the same thing happened to me. I was riding out of my neighborhood and realized I had my headlight shut off. When I switched it on, the bike went dead.

Today I will get back to checking things out, but I suspect I have a wire that either is bare and rubbing the frame somewhere or a broken connection. I am starting at the headlight bucket and will be going through the whole harness until I find it. Oddly, I just did this about 3 years ago to make sure all connections were cleaned and greased with di-lectric grease.

Hope this helps you with yours and good luck. Do keep us posted when you discover your problem and I will do the same.

 

[Guest]

If it's not the fuse you're going to have to pull out your volt meter and start going down the line and see where the power loss is. Take off the tank and pull apart the headlight bucket to make sure the connectors for everything is together properly and nothing is all melted, especially the ignition and gauge ones.

 

[Nschultz]

sounds to me like a ground is off somewhere. Check your grounds (Black wires) and make sure there are none loose or not bolted on properly.

 

[Guest]

I'm just down the road in Summerland and have a few decades of experience on these bikes. If you're still stumped I could come up and help figure it out. Send me a PM [private message] if you still need assistance.

If you follow the links on the Basscliff site you can download the factory manual for this bike as it's somewhat different from the US model, although electrically they're virtually the same.

 

[Polish-Jack]

I'm just down the road in Summerland and have a few decades of experience on these bikes. If you're still stumped I could come up and help figure it out. Send me a PM [private message] if you still need assistance.

If you follow the links on the Basscliff site you can download the factory manual for this bike as it's somewhat different from the US model, although electrically they're virtually the same.

Thanks for the offer of help, I really appreciate it. But I managed to figure it out myself (so proud ). When I tested to fuse I had removed it from the fuse holder, but there was not continuity past the fuse. Turns out the fuse holder is a piece of spring loaded junk. I'm going to replace it with one that clips onto the fuse.

I hope the offer of help is an open one, John. I would not mind abusing your good nature in the future.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the offer of help, I really appreciate it. But I managed to figure it out myself (so proud ). When I tested to fuse I had removed it from the fuse holder, but there was not continuity past the fuse. Turns out the fuse holder is a piece of spring loaded junk. I'm going to replace it with one that clips onto the fuse.

I hope the offer of help is an open one, John. I would not mind abusing your good nature in the future.

Yes, it's open. I also have some bits and pieces for the 400 4 valve motor that I don't need anymore as I have converted mine to a 450. I have a spare motor I'm converting this winter so a complete 400 top end will be available if you ever need anything. I have some gaskets on hand.

It is very important to make sure that the valves are adjusted before you do much distance. They're usually neglected and tend to wear tight, which screws up the head and the cams. Because of this, spare cylinder head parts are a bit scarce, so you want to get that checked as soon as you can. They are adjustable with the typical screw and locknut, but you'll need a slim 9mm wrench [ a fat one can be ground down] and a wrench to hold the square headed adjusting screw which can be fashioned from a #2 Robertson screw bent at right angles and screwed into a small bit of wood.

I'm still running that crummy fuse holder, but I'll agree with you that a better one is recommended. Nothing is more frightening than having a fuse blow in the dark at speed. The 15A original fuse is on the edge of undersize and replacing it with a 20A will give more reliability, yet still blow if something shorts out. As you found out, most everything passes through there, so it gets lots of work.

 

[Polish-Jack]

The previous owner of my bike did not know much about bike and never had it serviced so I am going to strongly belive that the valves have not been adjusted in a very long time. But the next thing on my list after the fuse is to clean the carbs. I had to de-rust the fuel tank and replaced the petcock because the PO left the bike sitting for 2+ years with fuel in it so the carbs are probably is terrible condition.

 

[Guest]

You should also check the oil level because if the fuel tap leaked [very common] fuel could have gone into the crankcase and diluted the oil, raising the level. You can use a short screwdriver to remove the float bowls and see if things look ugly or not before removing the carbs totally. If the fuel tap held, there may be rather minimal deposits, and if the bike runs okay you may save the cleaning for later.

For the record, US 450s had a very different carb which looked similar on the outside but isn't inside. So 450 'carb kits' and such will not work. Suzuki Canada will have at least some parts for 400s. Part number sleuthing can be done at cmsnl.com - Consolidated Motor Spares in the Netherlands, who also ship to Canada.

 

[Polish-Jack]

OK. I replaced the fuse holder with something much more solid and am quite happy with the job.

I'm going to take your advice about just removing the float bowls, but right now I don't have a petcock for the bike. Is there a way I can feed some fuel into the system for a momentary engine test? Does the petcock vacuum hose need to be plugged for everything to work?

I was thinking of just pushing fuel into the fuel line until it won't take anymore and starting the bike. Will this work?

 

[Guest]

Yes, you'll need to plug the vacuum line.

The official 7mm fuel line is seemingly unavailable around here. Valley M/sports ordered some using the official part number and they sent vacuum hose instead. I'm using 5/16 auto fuel line and teeny hose clamps, which works but isn't pretty or proper.

You could stick a funnel in the gas line and fill the carbs but it won't run long and things are bound to get messy, but you could rig some sort of makeshift fuel tank out of whatever you can find. Just remember that it needs to be vented on top.

What happened to the original tap? If it passes fuel on Prime the you can run it that way for testing and just use the other setting for Off as long as the diaphragm is intact so the vacuum doesn't suck fuel directly into the engine. I have a few parts for them; nothing pretty but often functional.

 

[Polish-Jack]

What happened to the original tap? If it passes fuel on Prime the you can run it that way for testing and just use the other setting for Off as long as the diaphragm is intact so the vacuum doesn't suck fuel directly into the engine. I have a few parts for them; nothing pretty but often functional.

The original tap, which does not have a prime position (it's only a two position switch, on and reserve), was seized. I took it apart and found a metal disc of some sort behind the vacuum diaphragm that was broken into three pieces and there is a split/cut in the diaphragm. I ordered a new one from VMS but they say Suzuki says it's on back order for at lease 3 weeks. That's why I am trying to figure out how to start the bike without a gas tank so I can get other work done on it while I wait for the new part to come in.

 

[Guest]

I have a tap from an 850G that appears - and I say Appears - to be functional. It would fit, except the hoses face forward - the 850 is a long bike - instead of back, so the outlet almost hits the cylinder head. However, if you pulled the tank back a bit and propped it up an inch or two it would clear and work.

You're most welcome to borrow it for however long you want, as I'm not in need of it.

 

[Polish-Jack]

I have a tap from an 850G that appears - and I say Appears - to be functional. It would fit, except the hoses face forward - the 850 is a long bike - instead of back, so the outlet almost hits the cylinder head. However, if you pulled the tank back a bit and propped it up an inch or two it would clear and work.

You're most welcome to borrow it for however long you want, as I'm not in need of it.

If my hillbilly attempts at feeding the bike are unsuccessful I will definitely take you up on your offer. Thanks!

 

[Polish-Jack]

So I have a good new, bad news result. The good news is that plugging up the petcock vacuum hose and squirting guzzolene into the fuel hose until it would not take anymore (I am assuming this filled up the carb's fuel bowls) let me start the engine and it ran as long as I had the throttle twisted just a tiny bit.

The bad news is that there is a whine coming from the engine and some 'not exhaust' white smoke coming from the right pipe. I don't know if they are related but the only way I can describe the whine is like gears moving too fast.

I am going to start a new thread about the whine after I clean out the carbs.

Thanks for all the help on the electrical issue!