Designing my own Rectifier/Regulator

[cberkeley]

Sort of answering my own question posted earlier.
Being an EE by profession I did some research and now I think I will undertake designing and building my own Rectifier/Regulator for my GS650GL. Why?....
1. Seems like an interesting fun project.
2. I do have the capability (30-yrs electronics design experience and an electronics lab / machineshop here at home).
3. I would have control over the quality of components used.
4. I would have control over the electrical ratings of components and thus robustness of the finished device.
5. I would like some control over the charging rate to the battery.
6. I would like protection from catastrophic failure.
7. Some sort of built-in voltage monitor would be a nice extra.
8. Having the above features would automatically make it a universal fit for bikes having 3-phase, permanent magnet alternator charging systems.
9. Would be nice to be able to contribute something tangible on this site.

The rectifier, Power control and Heat dissipation stuff is a piece of cake and very straightforward. The control electronics is going to be a little different in terms of sensing, processing and we need to add a status display. The package will probably be a bit larger, mainly because of the robust power components and my preference for larger heatsinks for more efficient heat dissipation, but should pose no mounting problems on the bike.
Some prelininary circuit mock-up and bench-testing of the sense/control circuit last night proved very encouraging. Will keep you posted on the progress.8-[
Anything else you would suggest added, while I'm at it?

 

[spots25]

wow, sounds like quite a project. I hope it works out for you. When I first saw the thread title, I thought to myself "even Suzuki couldn't make one!" but in your case, I think you probably can.

 

[semerm]

If you make one and it works, patent it. You will probably have many customers here alone!

 

[Guest]

Hi Berk, I'll be watching for your progress. I still have the original on my '78 and it is a little worrysome to me especially after reading some of the problems others have had. I've been using up fuses a little too often and have been told that may be a sign of bad things to come, wiring appears not to be a problem. Thanks for your work on the problem. Ray

 

[Boondocks]

Sort of answering my own question posted earlier.
Being an EE by profession I did some research and now I think I will undertake designing and building my own Rectifier/Regulator for my GS650GL. Why?....
1. Seems like an interesting fun project.
2. I do have the capability (30-yrs electronics design experience and an electronics lab / machineshop here at home).
3. I would have control over the quality of components used.
4. I would have control over the electrical ratings of components and thus robustness of the finished device.
5. I would like some control over the charging rate to the battery.
6. I would like protection from catastrophic failure.
7. Some sort of built-in voltage monitor would be a nice extra.
8. Having the above features would automatically make it a universal fit for bikes having 3-phase, permanent magnet alternator charging systems.
9. Would be nice to be able to contribute something tangible on this site.

The rectifier, Power control and Heat dissipation stuff is a piece of cake and very straightforward. The control electronics is going to be a little different in terms of sensing, processing and we need to add a status display. The package will probably be a bit larger, mainly because of the robust power components and my preference for larger heatsinks for more efficient heat dissipation, but should pose no mounting problems on the bike.
Some prelininary circuit mock-up and bench-testing of the sense/control circuit last night proved very encouraging. Will keep you posted on the progress.8-[
Anything else you would suggest added, while I'm at it?

Well, after a brief look a your web site, I must say that you are most certainly (over)qualified for this project. Needless to say, you have the requirements covered very well.

An optional waterproof lighted voltage monitor that was handlebar mounted would be handy. Some, including myself have already added aftermarket voltage gauges because of the high failure rate of the charging system.

Perhaps this is what you had in mind with your item no. 5, but another feature that would set your product apart and possibly make it applicable to a wider market would be a provision to adjust the charging voltage to optimize for flooded or AGM batteries. I believe that AGM batteries benefit from a slightly higher charging voltage, and the ability to adjust the voltage for different battery types would be a first in the marketplace. I am thinking of this capability because I know that advanced electronic battery chargers such as produced by Soneil have this capability. This might not be feasible with a standard Zener diode setup as in the OEM parts, but you can design a scheme to make a voltage adjustment.

It will be very interesting to see what you come up with, and I applaud your taking on this project.

 

[jimcor]

8-[ Anything else you would suggest added, while I'm at it?

And a partridge in a pear treeeeee!

\\/

 

[earlfor]

Be sure and keep us all informed of the progress. I expect you have a large waiting customer list right here on the GSR. I'm all ears.

Earl

Anything else you would suggest added, while I'm at it?

 

[J_C]

Wow how neat! Very cool project! I too will be watching your progress

 

[DimitriT]

Perhaps you can put together a kit. My cousin manufactures low volume circuit boards. I can ask him to produce a small number and we can purchase the components to put together a kit which someone can assemble. Do you think it would be to compilcated for this?

 

[cberkeley]

A kit would be real simple really, there are only a dozen or so components on the circuit board all low current. The only PITA area is really mechanical, in deciding on an enclosure/heat-sink, hopefully we can get away with something that has bolt holes that would line-up with the original fixture. I will design a PCB tomorrow, so we can get a quote. I will also consider the mechanical stuff for enclosing it.

 

[ihalterman]

I will buy one. I heave two spares of questionable quality.

BJ

 

[ghwrenchit]

Cletus,

I may be able to help out this project locally here in MI. I spent ~20 years here in Automotive as a Product Design/Mfg Engineer. Homebrew CNC rocks!!!

Greg

 

[Nerobro]

wow, sounds like quite a project. I hope it works out for you. When I first saw the thread title, I thought to myself "even Suzuki couldn't make one!" but in your case, I think you probably can.

Suzuki didn't make them. Never have. Shidengen makes them. Suzuki just seems to order parts that are barely adequate.

Sort of answering my own question posted earlier.
Being an EE by profession I did some research and now I think I will undertake designing and building my own Rectifier/Regulator for my GS650GL. Why?....
*A bunch of good reasons *
Anything else you would suggest added, while I'm at it?

How are you doing the voltage regulation? This doesn't seem like a good place to use a ziener diode as you want to have an adjustable output voltage. And are you using a packaged rectifier? or are you specing the diodes on your own?

The thing that would really rock my socks, (as I use honda r/r's..) is an ignitor unit. Those things are $150+ from suzuki.

So... with a little resarch on Digikey.. 3phase rectifier. 35 amps.. 36MT20-ND And oh.. a 15v ziener diode to dump excess voltage.. BZG03C15GOSCT-ND *grins* But I know jack about DC voltage regulation.

 

[Planecrazy]

I am loving this project -- and I want one as soon as you've got it finalized!

By the way, regarding heat sinking ... why not design the unit to use the bike's frame as an additional heat sink? Does the unit need to be electrically isolated from the frame? If so, how about designing an enclosure that incorporates a 12V computer fan as a way of ensuring airflow even when the bike might be sitting in traffic on a hot day?

Keep up the good work, and thanks in advance!!

 

[cberkeley]

OK!.... this project is begining to rock!..... The biking thing extends well beyond mounting the machine and tearing-up some highway, good:-D
Answers to your questions:
1. Yes, the bike's frame will form part of the heatsink but with the overrated power devices I'm using, heatsink size is not a big issue.
2. The unit's case is negative potential and can/should be bonded to the bike's frame.
3. As per item one above, the heat dissipation does not pose a problem and I like the idea of no moving parts.... thus, no fan.
Cheers, Cletus

 

[cberkeley]

Ahhhh!.... you're doing your homework!
Yes, Packaged full-wave bridges, and Boltstud SCR's. The zener provides a stable Vref only and is in the low power control circuit. The control circuit compares the sense voltage via a voltage divider network to the Vref and triggers the firing of the shunt SCR's.

 

[rkubik]

patents and diodes

patents and diodes

yeah, you're right, filing a patent is likely just an invitation to some low-cost manufacturer to copy it, sad but true.

For the actual AC to DC rectification part, are you going with the usual 4-diode Wheatstone bridge mimic arrangement? Or is there something better these days?

I've been contemplating this as well for a winter 2006/7 project, haven't got round to working out the diode specs, but I have scoped out some sources for them.

 

[cberkeley]

The Patent Office and Patent Lawyers suck. Just a big ripoff from my experience, the cheapest Patent Lawyer I spoke to wanted US$20K before he even looked at my draft. A friend of mine designed an electronic digital vault lock, mortgaged his house to do the patent thing, went most of the way with it, only to find that it was copied along the way and was being manufactured in Asia, copied down to the last detail. I do own one patent locally but it's really not worth the paper it's written on.
Anyways......... There are 3-phase diode packs available but the onesI've found are very expensive. So I plan on using two (actually connected one and one half) 4-diode Wheatstone bridges (way cheaper).
I just scrounged some acceptable SCRs from my junk box, I don't have suitable bridges though, so got to get those tomorrow.

 

[ghwrenchit]

Greg:
Great, This is what I need, as trying to do anything other than a prototype here in Trinidad & Tobago will be frustrating.
I have no intention of buying a Harley or Mercedes from this project (if that happens, I will certainly not complain as I'm sure they will add very nicely to my garage decor:-D ), but my main interest is to contribute to the biking community if I can (when I get into these groups, I get myself into soooo much trouble) and I believe that I can use my training and talents to solve this nagging problem with a robust device that at the same time gives us come control over the charging system. I believe that I'm on to something here. Today's a public holiday here (got up early of course, and went for a 20-mile ride in the hills) and tomorrow I will purchase some perfboard and a bunch of components and build and test a full prototype. I will probably just mill a case/ heatsink from a block of 6061 Aluminum for the prototype. We'll refine all the stuff down the road, there are many ways to accomplish the regulation but I'm applying the "KISS" principle and trying to keep the parts count low without compromising performance.
Will keep you updated.
Cheers, Cletus

Cletus,

Are all of the component's perf mount or surface, wave soldering an option?
What is the max temp any given component will handle, as in sealed unit packaging, or do the components require air flow? I personally hate the sealed unit design, makes service a PITA. I'm currently working on another application ( need your input on this....application) that involves a molded two piece clamshell design, with a semi-pliable housing. (My past experience was plastic processing, and I still like to dabble.....)

ghwrenchit

 

[ghwrenchit]

I agree, the patent thing bites. IMHO you just need to get it out there LLC. If you get sued and can't pay, go out of business, and start again :-D :-D :-D It's the 90's + American way!!! Wish I had a dime for each time I get mad at the system.... I'd be riding a GS1100 sport around my 60~ft yacht deck somewhere in the atlantic under full sun!!!

ghwrenchit