Diagnosis of secondary drive

[Guest]

I have read gs1000g shopper's PDF and have prepared to tear into this project but I need to be assured I'm heading in the right direction.
About 2000 miles ago I changed the gear oil and found it had water in it. I had put about 6000 miles on it when I discovered it. I believe the water entered through the mystery hole from the car wash but I'm not sure. There was no gasket on the starter cover.
It did good until Sunday last when it suddenly started making a whining noise. Very much like a speedo that needs lubed but louder. This noise is coming from the left rear behind the stator cover.
It does it through all 5 gears but only when I accelerate. If pull the clutch or decelerate it goes completely away.
I'm suspecting bearings but not ruling out gears.
I drained the gear oil again suspecting more water and it was clean.
It's an '83 1100L with 16000 miles on it. Am I on the right track?

Alan

 

[Guest]

It's hard to believe 25 people have looked at this and can't say yes or no. The question still stands. I don't want to tear this down until I'm sure. I'm learning but I need help.

 

[Guest]

I think you're spinning your starter with a bad starter clutch.
You'll know for sure when your starter explodes.

 

[Guest]

Thank you, that sounds like a possibility I wouldn't have considered. What puzzled me was it sounded fine when I rode it to town then washed it and suddenly started to make noise. I'll start there before I grenade anything. Appreciate it.

 

[Gorminrider]

I don't know, but I have a some of questions..
- You say it sounds

Very much like a speedo that needs lubed but louder.

. A speedometer noise would only happen when the bike is moving. Does your noise depend on the bike moving? or,
- Does it also make a noise on the centrestand, wheel in gear?
-Does the noise go up and down in relation to engine RPM? or the speed of the rear wheel? The starter clutch as a problem would seem to depend upon engine rpm...and wouldn't it happen whatever gear the bike is in? including neutral.

 

[Guest]

The noise is the same relation to the rear wheel. It doesn't vary with rpm. It does it in all 5 gears which to me ruled out tranny or any particular gear.
I have not tested it on the center stand ( frankly I didn't even think about it) but now that you mention it I'll run it on the center stand and listen through a hammer handle. Maybe a little brake would put enough load on it to hear.
The noise is only present when accelerating. Let off the throttle it goes away, pull in the clutch it also goes away.
I gingerly rode it to work this morning and listened to it closely and I'm almost convinced it's the drive gears. What's odd to me is how suddenly it happened. I turned it off to wash it, it was fine, I started it up to leave it was not so fine.
When I get my other bike tuned I'll pull those gears and take a look.
I know it's not the speedo, mine needed lubed and it just sounded similar.
Thank you for helping me think through this.

 

[Gorminrider]

Helping me too! My GS650G has the same whine. I just wanted to be sure yours is the same. I liken the whine to "an old English car in reverse". I've also heard it almost exactly the same on a Honda GL500 shaft drive but I resolved that at the oil pump chain of all places...

a search for "whine" brings up a few ideas. It's apparently fairly common. Unfortunately most of the threads run out of steam with no end solution reported as in "aha-that was it!". I haven't found it anyways.
It doesn't seem to be crucial. I've put plenty of miles on it with no change and just haven't got 'round to it. However,

...Shims are involved. This seems a candidate to me....mesh of teeth is important! and more including mention of straight-cut gears...

Yes, the rear hub spline of these years is known to be weak, but the noise doesn't seem to come from here and mine at least shows no wear of consequence yet...

 

[Guest]

I don't know, but I have a some of questions..
- You say it sounds . A speedometer noise would only happen when the bike is moving. Does your noise depend on the bike moving? or,
- Does it also make a noise on the centrestand, wheel in gear?
-Does the noise go up and down in relation to engine RPM? or the speed of the rear wheel? The starter clutch as a problem would seem to depend upon engine rpm...and wouldn't it happen whatever gear the bike is in? including neutral.

I was able to put it on the center stand yesterday after work and I ran it in fifth gear. The noise persisted so I took a 1" dowel rod against my ear and touched various places on the case. I checked crank, tappets, stator, final drive and clutch and the noise was loudest over the drive gears.

A foreign car in reverse that's a perfect description.

So it's settled, I'm digging into the drive gears. It may be a couple weeks or so but I'll post my findings here.

 

[520eek]

I like the "old english car in reverse" descriptive!

 

[Guest]

Am I correct in assuming you guys are still riding your bike's in spite of this noise?

It's a little unnerving to me. I have visions of the rear end locking up and me careening into oblivion. Or worse yet doing more damage to the bike.

 

[JTGS850GL]

If the sound is coming from the final drive gear (not the secondary gear area) then it could be the splines that engage the rear wheel. The teeth tend to wear down and will eventually cause a complete loss of drive. Some will make a fair amount of noise before they do go completely. later year GS's that had the gold gear were particularly susceptible to this.

 

[Guest]

If the sound is coming from the final drive gear (not the secondary gear area) then it could be the splines that engage the rear wheel. The teeth tend to wear down and will eventually cause a complete loss of drive. Some will make a fair amount of noise before they do go completely. later year GS's that had the gold gear were particularly susceptible to this.

The sound is definitely coming from the secondary drive area but I will inspect the final drive as well.

There is play somewhere in that train and I think it is in the final drive. I've read where the worst of these years was the '82 with the gold gear and the black or silver gears were good.

I haven't searched the forum yet but is the backlash in the final drive adjustable? Perhaps by the shim between the "pig" and the tube?

 

[JTGS850GL]

OK, if it's the secondary, then first check and replace the gear oil. See if you can identify any debris in the fluid that's drained. Bearing failure is rare but has happened so that may be the direction you're going in. There are two gears with bearings that need to be checked. One gear can be accessed from the side cover while the other will need the complete drive shaft and swingarm assembly to be removed. I'd start with the first gear set behind the secondary cover and see if that the cause before proceeding to the other. For what it's worth, the most common failure is with that first gear assembly.

 

[Guest]

Give this a read. http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...!/page2&highlight=one+hundred+fifty+five+feet

 

[Guest]

The first order of business was to drain the oil as I did have a bout with water in the gears a year ago. It took 4 flushes to clean it up then. This time it came out clean with no crumbs.

Thanks for that thread gsrick, that is exactly my fear, without the dirtbike experience.

I may have an issue related to the water/poor maintenance.

 

[Gorminrider]

that's a pretty extreme example( http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...!/page2&highlight=one+hundred+fifty+five+feet ) and I'm not not sure how it relates to the whining. Haven't seen any chunks of metal or even sparkles in the old oil of this still-new-2-me bike.

Am I correct in assuming you guys are still riding your bike's in spite of this noise?

I rode my whining 650 to Kelowna and back (1000km) without issue or change in the noise call it 2k km (1200miles) since putting it on the road... But I'm a premature in this post as I haven't been chasing the issue with other bikes to ride. I need the rainy days of autumn to get me bunkered in to it.

 

[Guest]

I rode my whining 650 to Kelowna and back (1000km) without issue or change in the noise call it 2k km (1200miles) since putting it on the road... But I'm a premature in this post as I haven't been chasing the issue with other bikes to ride. I need the rainy days of autumn to get me bunkered in to it.

I was hoping for the snowy season of winter for this work but it came upon me suddenly. I did buy another bike but it's down now too due to change of ownership maintenance. Go figure.

I think I would be more comfortable with a whine that was either gradual or just a characteristic like "the old English car in reverse", but this was a sudden change which is what threw the flag for me.

 

[Gorminrider]

The "Wash-and-Whine" scenario is darned odd, for sure..... for myself, the whine is annoying and I expect to be investigating JTGS850GL's path unless you can hand me your answer on a platter to try-please! .... so far, I expect the Primary drive as the rear looks pretty good....

 

[Guest]

The "Wash-and-Whine" scenario is darned odd, for sure..... for myself, the whine is annoying and I expect to be investigating JTGS850GL's path unless you can hand me your answer on a platter to try-please! .... so far, I expect the Primary drive as the rear looks pretty good....

Does yours do it in every gear?
I'm beginning to believe that the"wash and whine" may be coincidence.
I will definitely post my findings for you.

Here's a question. Does the mystery hole vent the secondary drive? The only other consideration for the moisture would be condensation from years of sitting in the po's barn.

 

[Guest]

OK, if it's the secondary, then first check and replace the gear oil. See if you can identify any debris in the fluid that's drained. Bearing failure is rare but has happened so that may be the direction you're going in. There are two gears with bearings that need to be checked. One gear can be accessed from the side cover while the other will need the complete drive shaft and swingarm assembly to be removed. I'd start with the first gear set behind the secondary cover and see if that the cause before proceeding to the other. For what it's worth, the most common failure is with that first gear assembly.

I'm hoping for this to be the first gear assembly. But preparing for all.

I'm going to post this thread, I found it very helpful, http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?230808-How-to-remove-secondary-drive-gears


And this nugget of wisdom thanks to GS1000G shopper, http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...4-GS1000G-Secondary-Drive-Bearing-Replacement